Lack of available trains

[Starkey7]

This has been the cause of Minor Delays on the Circle line for a few days. Can't they rectify this? Can't they procure trains and drivers as soon as they know of a problem?

[moley]

The problem, I suspect dates back to 7/7.

From memory, three trains suffered damage of which 2 were not likely to be returned to service.

If you consider that they still have, say, two trains out of the set on maintenance daily then they are trying to run a service probably at full stretch. Therefore is one breaks down it's a problem.

Not a problem between the peaks when the H&C line can be cut back to Whitechapel but a bigger problem during the peaks when the service ineeds to be run to Barking to provide capacity.

[snudge27]

Probably a very stupid question, but would they be able to use other stocks on the line with or without modifications?

[jonny]

erm, I guess they might be able to with quite a lot of modification (as long as the sizes of carriages and lengths of trains fit). It isn't likely to be worth it though.

The problem with A stock is that they run in either 8 or 4-car sets. I believe one A stock unit is only 2 cars long, so they could put 3 units together to form a 6-car set but it probably wouldnt work as the A stock are quite big trains.

I believe that D stock are not the right size to run between HSK and Baker Street, they could perhaps handle the H&C though? (Except the curve between Aldgate East and Liverpool Street is quite tight).

Basically, the answer is no.

[snudge27]

Would it not be possible to split the line down into shuttles in order to keep services running to time/frequency if such a situation occurred?

[moley]

That's effectively what you have got:

District 'shuttle' Aldgate East - Earl's Court and Earl's Court to Edgware Road
H & C 'shuttle' Edgware Road - Aldgate East
Metropolitan 'shuttle' Baker Street to Aldgate.

D Stock - cannot run between HSK and Paddington. It can from memory run from Aldgate East to Neasden but not in service due to platform length issues.

[snudge27]

How come it can run up to Neasden?

[tubeguru]

Width restrictions.

[snudge27]

Width restrictions.

Huh?

[tubeguru]

It can run to Neasden because up to that point there are no width restrictions, as far as I believe.

The simple answer is, because it can.

[barrykas]

From Clive's UndergrounD Line Guides:

Metropolitan Line:

The line is operated by 8-car A stock trains (two 4-car units), except that the Chesham shuttle, but not the through services, uses a 4-car train (which must be a unit with both cabs fully equipped; "single-ended" units may not operate alone in passenger service).

All LU stock may run on the line. NR stock running between Harrow-on-the-Hill and Mantles Wood Junction must be fitted with tripcocks.

Circle Line:

All stock is permitted on the line, with the following exceptions:

• A stock in passenger service may only operate between Aldgate and Edgware Road, and must use the central platforms at the latter. Coupled units may run empty between High Street Kensington and Embankment, and single units may run empty between Edgware Road and Mansion House.
• D stock may only run between Minories Junction and High Street Kensington.

District Line:

Normal operation is for the Edgware Road and Wimbledon service to be operated by C stock, and the remainder of the route by D stock.

The Richmond and Wimbledon branches are shared with NR trains, and so are restricted to C and D stock only (6-car D stock will not fit into the bay platform at Putney Bridge). In addition, empty Tube stock may run between Earl's Court and Putney Bridge.

The rest of the District Line is open to all stock except A stock, which may only operate when empty, and only on certain sections:

• Upminster to Aldgate East (and thence Liverpool Street)
• Mansion House to Embankment (single 4-car units only)
• Embankment to Hangar Lane Junction
• Gloucester Road via High Street Kensington (reversing) to Earl's Court
• High Street Kensington to Edgware Road (single 4-car units only)

D stock consists of two 3-car units. Single units have only one cab and may only operate in depots. Because the stock has stiff suspension it may only run on tracks maintained appropriately (the District Line and parts of the Piccadilly Line). 6-car trains will not fit in the stations from Notting Hill Gate to Edgware Road and thus may not carry passengers north of High Street Kensington.

East London Line:

The line is currently operated by 4-car A stock trains (using units with both cabs equipped); these are part of the Metropolitan Line fleet and exchanged with that line on a regular basis.

The only trains permitted to carry passengers are 4-car A stock (where both cabs are equipped), 4-car C stock, and 3 car double-ended units of 1973 Tube Stock. Longer trains, including 1959, 1967, and 1972 Tube Stock may carry passengers non-stop from Aldgate East or Whitechapel to New Cross Gate, or may run directly into New Cross Depot (though limited to certain sidings there). 4-car trains of those stocks may operate empty anywhere on the Line. The link to the District Line, though double track, may not be used in both directions simultaneously due to insufficient clearance. Passengers may not board or alight from 1973 Tube Stock at Canada Water due to the higher platforms.

Following the reconstruction of 1995-8, the line was cleared for main line "Networker" trains; when the southern extensions are built, these may well be used for through services.

HTH,

Barry

[jonny]

Cheers, that was helpful, and quite interesting.

I was told by a District line driver that the D stock were temporarily used on the ELL at one point (I can't remember the reason) and this seemed to be backed up by the fact that some D stock trains have ELL destinations on their blinds. CULG seems to contradict this -- does anyone know if it actually happened or not?

Also, to answer the question about if another train could be used in place of a C stock, it would appear that a 4-car A stock train could operate on the H&C line. They probably wouldn't do it though.

[editorsfoot]

I was told by a District line driver that the D stock were temporarily used on the ELL at one point (I can't remember the reason) and this seemed to be backed up by the fact that some D stock trains have ELL destinations on their blinds. CULG seems to contradict this -- does anyone know if it actually happened or not?

D stock was used on the ELL in the mid 80s. I vaguely remember travelling on one, and there is a picutre of D stock at Wapping on p65 of The London Undergound an illustrated history.

[jonny]

Thanks, do you know how many cars it had?

[Starkey7]

Could they not just knock up a new Circle line train?