Are we reaching a threshold?

[tubeguru]

Just recently, one over-enthusiastic tube challenger has made it his mission to do nothing with his life except full network attempts. This led me to question whether all this effort is actually worth it with regard to his chances of breaking the current record.

Has it got to the stage where a threshold has almost been reached, where any attempt will only succeed in breaking the record if lightning changes are made, trains run exactly to time and there are NO delays all day? Or is there still a lot of time to be made up and a much faster time just ready to be set if only everything holds together reasonably well?

The last two full network attemps (Hakan and Andi) have both been aborted near the end when it became apparent that the time would not be beaten. This points to the current record being close to the best anyone can hope to achieve given the current configuration.

And it may surprise you to know that I'm not actually sure I know what the record stands at or who has it. Can someone fill me in?

[greatkingrat]

The aforesaid over-enthusiastic tube challenger already holds the world record which makes it even stranger.

[nozzacook]

I feel that on one of those rare perfect days its possible to take another 10mins off the time then that will be it until serious network changes.

[palkanetoijala31]

The aforesaid over-enthusiastic tube challenger already holds the world record which makes it even stranger.

I still have the same passion as my 1st ever attempt and im sure the same questions were being said when u held the record for 2 years.

Whether or not the record can be beaten is debateable its certainly hard but for instance yesterday my running pace was 25% of what it usually is and we were still on for 17h 23m until 2 delays on the line.

And i might add the other record holder has done no attempts since so at least i raise the profile of tube challenging and have helped many out on their attempts.

[tubeguru]

The reason I ask if we've reached a plateau is because a full network challenge is being undertaken much more frequently than in my day, and yet so many of them are being aborted or come in under the record. That's why I suspected we may be getting close to the most realistically-achieveable time.

[palkanetoijala31]

Yesterday was an improvised route on the spot wiv respect to Sara (2nd fastest women on the underground)totally unplanned had to work on the hoof (got most of the door positions right)and dragged her round close to gwr pace.

So to say it is a threshold is nonsence i believe that its beatable so does hakan and a few others otherwise why would so many new members be trying it

[tubeguru]

There must be a finite fastest time and I feel it'you're close to it now.

So many members are trying it because first of all, we have a forum where people can see other people having a go, inspiring them to have a go too. Since the advent of this forum full network attempts have rocketed compared to the number of attempts that took place between 2000 and 2004.

[palkanetoijala31]

There must be a finite fastest time and I feel it'you're close to it now.

So many members are trying it because first of all, we have a forum where people can see other people having a go, inspiring them to have a go too. Since the advent of this forum full network attempts have rocketed compared to the number of attempts that took place between 2000 and 2004.

yes and we have u to thank 4 that i suppose though because the forum was not created until 2005 there is still no way to know how many attempts have been made past or present just more publicised attempts.

p.s u wouldnt like my fastest therotical time

[tubeguru]

I couldn't really care less what the fastest theoretical time is, but I suspect anyone going for the record may be.

[Going Underground]

The current GWR time was only set due to trains being in the "right place at the wrong time" If you ran this exact route through journey planner now it only come out at 17hrs 30mins.... I believe the actual time is 17hrs 12mins 43secs and to be perfectly blunt this was only achieved with the aid of very co-operative support.........

It is possbile to get routes on paper marginally inside this but more and more the biggest issue is now speed and fitness.....

I think if you look at the times set recently even allowing for the ELL then route planning has greatly evovoled over the last few years....

[Sam]

Yesterday was an improvised route on the spot wiv respect to Sara (fastest women on the underground)totally unplanned had to work on the hoof (got most of the door positions right)and dragged her round close to gwr pace.

She may be the fastest woman on the underground for now at least.....

[bouncingtigger]

The current GWR time was only set due to trains being in the "right place at the wrong time" If you ran this exact route through journey planner now it only come out at 17hrs 30mins.... I believe the actual time is 17hrs 12mins 43secs and to be perfectly blunt this was only achieved with the aid of very co-operative support.........

It is possbile to get routes on paper marginally inside this but more and more the biggest issue is now speed and fitness......

I've got a theoretical route of 16hrs 36m however, thats not to say it will work on the day.

But the main reason I started tube challenging was to raise money! Now it's just a hobby and for fun! Having lived in London for all my life, I learn new things everytime!

[Mitchell&BrownLook]

I'm apologise if I'm asking an odd question: but if the record is reaching a threshold, is that a problem in the first place? I only ask because, personally I don't see it as such, and just presumed that other forum members didn't either. However I'm fully aware that I've not yet attempted the full record, and thus am not as qualified as many to speak on this issue.

But if you don't mind, I'd just like to explain my thoughts on this by doing what I quite often do and relating this example to sport, as it is something that I feel I know a little more about. Thus it could be said that there are many sporting world records that have stood for far greater expanses of time than Andi's current tube challenge GWR, yet this has not stopped other sportsmen and women still trying to break the world record for their discipline in the mean time. Perhaps the classic example is the Men's Outdoor Long Jump World Record in Athletics, that was set in 1935 by Jesse Owens and was not beaten again until 1960 by Ralph Boston, who snipped 8cm off Owen's record. This was seen as staggering in itself as it was thought that Owen's world record would never be beaten, yet this was far superseded by how Boston's original record was beaten no less than 7 times in the next 7 years! The record grew by a further 14cm in this time after Igor Ter-Ovanesyan's record which was the last mark in this 7 year succession. But a year later in the 1968 Bob Beamom took a staggering 55cm off Ter-Ovanesyan's record: a world record that stood until 1991 when Mike Powell jumped just 5cm further. Powell's 1991 world record still stands today in 2009, while Beaman's 1968 jump is still the 2nd furthest of all time.

At any of these times where the record could have been described as "reaching a plateau" thanks to how it had not been broken for a great period of time, the IAAF (Athletics' World Governing Body) could have cancelled the competition entirely on the grounds of it becoming a stagnant sport. Yet it didn't (and doesn't want to now, despite the record having stood for 18 years and counting) as competition is rife between those in the sport today, even if those individuals haven't currently matched the world record. While this attitude could be adapted for more of the Alternative Tube Challenges until the main record is broken, conversely if all attention is put on say John's long standing Bottle record, it will take longer for the main record to be broken as fewer attempts will be made on it as most are attempts are instead focused on John's record.

Thus, I see nothing wrong with any challenger aborting world record attempts, whether they be the most seasoned of current or former world record holders, or simply a rookie, who has run out of energy! I'm sure that "on the day difficulties" are still to blame for most abortions, but even if more aborted missions are thanks to the attempt not being fruitful in producing a near world record time than was, I see no deterioration of the activity as hinted by tubeguru. In fact I personally see it as a positive attribute to tube challenging as it shows to all that sporting element are coming to the fore as us as an activity, where some challengers only wish to complete a full attempt if it is close to world record time. This may also better their all time statistics, which in turn shows that the fighting spirit (otherwise known as win at all costs) of challengers is coming to the fore, highlighting that competitiveness and hunger for the world record is on the increase rather than the decrease.

This leads onto my final point that tries to look at the following quote from the aforementioned tubeguru.

The reason I ask if we've reached a plateau is because a full network challenge is being undertaken much more frequently than in my day, and yet so many of them are being aborted or come in under the record. That's why I suspected we may be getting close to the most realistically-achievable time.

While the previous content of my post was directed towards all forum members, I feel that this has to be singularly at our site administrator. (Who is a fantastic one at that, don't get me wrong.)
Simply Neil, is it not to be expected that when more people participate in an activity, the elite standard of said activity will become harder to reach? (This being thanks to how more people have attempted the activity and the laws of averages dictate that the sum of people very good at this activity ought to also increase with the total number of participants.)


As normal, I look forward to all responses written about the subject of my post.
(He says, stepping off his soap box.)

[Starkey7]

Interesting...

Can you state the so-called Law Of Averages please?

[dudey]

Interesting...

Can you state the so-called Law Of Averages please?

It can probably be found in Derren Brown's Book of (made-up) Maths...