GWR Site is reporting a new World Record time ...

[DrainBrain]

tufnellpark and friend, congratulations on your GWR and welcome to the board.

So...

• * The Oyster journey history doesn't need to show every interchange, it just needs to be consistent with your full journey log.
  
  * You're not going to touch in/out if you're running for a train or at a deep station, but if you know you're waiting a couple of minutes for the next train then most of the outlying stations have touch in/out points near the platform that you can easily use.
  
  * You still need to have a master stopwatch and submit journey logs, witness statements, photos/videos etc.

It doesn't seem too bad, though it is an extra thing to worry about and you're going to walk at least a little bit further than you would have.

Presumably you have to submit a journey history from a different Oyster card for each person involved.

[nozzacook]

Downloaded from Guinness today. Here is the rules specific to the London underground and are as well as the general rules for underground networks.

Fastest time to travel to all London
Underground stations
Record definition
• The record is for the fastest time to travel the entire London Underground system.
• This is to be attempted by an individual or a team.
• This record is measured in hours, minutes and seconds to the nearest 100th of a second.
Rules for Fastest time to travel to all London Underground stations
1. All of the stations served by London Underground trains must be visited. To `visit' a station, the applicant must arrive and/or depart by an underground train in normal public service, but where a service is shared by underground and overground or other commercially operated trains travelling over the same tracks, it is permissible to use the overground or commercially operated trains.
2. The (SW Trains) Waterloo and City line, the (West Anglia) Finsbury Park to Moorgate line, East London line and the Docklands Light Railway are not included in this attempt.
3. It is necessary for a through train to stop at the station for the visit to count, although the applicant does not need to get out. Certain stations are normally only open at certain times of the day, and this must be taken into account in planning.
4. if a station is temporarily closed (e.g. for rebuilding, or in an emergency), or if it closes earlier or opens later than normal as a result of rebuilding work, a non-stop pass through a station will be acceptable.
5. Stations which are geographically separate and not linked but which have the same name must each be visited. This applies to Shepherds Bush and Edgware Road.
6. You must use an Oyster card for this journey. Please submit the journey history: this can be viewed from the Transport for London website at https://account.tfl.gov.uk/oyster.

I think I might be retiring from record attempts yet another layer of hassle.

Document dated 8th April 2015
If anyone wants the full PDFs pm me your email and I'll send.

[Going Underground]

Game over, will still do the charity attempts (and Cannon Street Run ) in fastest possible time but no 3rd GWR for me now....

[moley]

So Guinness are letting different people download different versions of the rules.

[palkanetoijala31]

Well i refuse to use i have an attempt planned in the works i shall not use this oyster ******** touch in and out indeed within a 2 hour window im starting the MUTINY!

[nozzacook]

Guinness have always been clear as mud.

[The Orange One]

Next thing you know, it'll be the FNC - Park Challenge Style!!

The first time I fell afoul of Maximum Journey Times, I was heading from Upminster back into Central London, and I decided on a whim to go and visit Mill Hill East, because I'd never been. Of course, with my luck, it was a 15 minute wait at Finchley Central because I actually wanted to go up the branch that day. Upon touch out at Warren Street, my card wouldn't let me through the barrier, so I went over to the man in the ticket office to ask him to let me out/refund me. Upon explanation of what I had done, he told me, and I quote "London Underground is a serious system" and that it was "joyriders like you who drive the fares up". He did let me out, though, and refund me, so it's OK.

I'm actually even more impressed with your new record, given this whole Oyster palaver. I say in protest we should do an "Oyster FNC" - work out how Oyster would interpret a certain route (say the Labyrinth), then run through the route as Oyster decrees it. So Chesham start, then go straight to North Harrow as the Amersham and Watford doublebacks would go completely unrecognised. Would certainly save on Upminster and the eastern end of the Central Line!! Consider: Walthamstow Central, Walthamstow QR, Leytonstone HR, Leytonstone, then south/west - because you don't need to touch anywhere when going up to Epping and round the loop, do you?

We would be finished by mid afternoon. Darts in the evening (though I don't play, all the rest of you do!)..

[al]

Firstly, congratulations on the new record!

Secondly, I am very confused about this whole Oyster scenario.

- As someone who has had their attempt (s) registered for a while with Guinness, I too am only seeing the original rules. Does that mean Guinness will honour them?

- I was originally horrified at the prospect of using Oyster because of time outs, but then when I looked into it there seemed to be only one risky bit. However, I had forgotten about OSI s. To break them, do I really have to run in circles round the gates, in and out and in again?

- Would contactless be equally acceptable?

And finally, having to visit ticket barriers especially is making it unnaturally harder for the record to be broken again, unless cost is no object to pay all the maximum fares! That is, at least in part, why we are so against the idea. My guess is someone at Guinness uses Oyster to get to work and thought it would be a handy tool to help with verification, without realising the implications caused by the way Oyster works.

P.S. Are weekend attempts now valid?

[nozzacook]

What you have to remember the oyster journey history is on top of your complete journey logbook. And just serves as verification for it. Using oyster just saves Guinness work but could end up being very expensive on the day especially if on payg oyster.

Also extreme care would be needed to ensure you have tapped in as any mistakes could land you with penalty fares or worse if stopped by inspectors.

[The Orange One]

So as part of my 'Walk the tube' charity event taking place this Friday (10th April) some of us (out of the 26 of us doing it!) are now going to try using Oyster PAYG for the whole day, to see what pitfalls are .. of which i am sure there we'll be some. We'll report back here.

It's another level of ludicrousness - same as Guinness not recognising that now infamous valid weekend attempt, same as them not recognising Wood Lane as a big enough to change to warrant a reset (remember those 16:39 and 16:42 times I told you about done off of an evening Olympia? we changed between Wood Lane and White City on both of those attempts - impossible before Wood Lane opening), and yes someone at GWR goes "Oh, I know we'll get them to use Oyster because that has a handy journey history" without realising that it times out. They've never done the challenge, so they don't completely understand how their rules affect us.

I too am seeing the 'old' set of rules, with no mention of Oyster. Hopeless.

If Oyster can be used, why not Contactless? Yet again, Guinness say 'Do this...' without thinking it through or having a full understanding of it. Again, hopeless.

But (thanks tufnellpark) of course, it is just PART of the evidence that they now require, along with everything else. The fact that you have managed this is extremely impressive...

To avoid OSI just touch out/in at nearby interchange stations. It only takes 10 secs. Kenton/Northwick Park OSI was mentioned. Simply touch out/in at Preston Road or Harrow & Wealdstone, where you are changing trains, obviously checking you have enough time before your train departs. At Epping the gates are right on the platform, so touch out/in is easy. But if you are rushing to catch a train from the other platform, just touch out/in at Woodford instead. To avoid exceeding maximum journey times, plan to touch out/in where you can ie where you are passing the gates at interchanges. So Moorgate is a good possibility, Brixton is not. We touched out/in 34 times during the day and the longest section between touches was 01:45. You do get some funny looks from gate staff though!

Moorgate? Nope .. i'm running right past the barriers getting to the Northern Line, or to the sub-surface as quick as I can. No time to stop at the barriers.
Preston Road? Nope .. on 16:20.27 day, we cross-platformed immediately onto a train in the opposite direction, no time to mess around with Oyster.
Harrow & Wealdstone? Nope .. you usually get two minutes and we were a minute late in, so we dashed over and 30 seconds later our train left. No time there.
Woodford? Nope .. we came round the loop, straight onto an Epping train and obviously didn't stop at Woodford on the way back south. That's no good.

I am struggling to think of places (apart from when you really do leave one station and enter another) that you would have time to go touch in/out. At Brixton you're underground, Covent Garden, Leicester Square and Kennington reverses you're deep underground, Stanmore is always a fast turnaround, Sloane Square you just reverse as fast as you can, so umm, really struggling ...

*thinks*

OK Maybe Upminster and you were going back into town on C2C and the side entrance was still open right by Platform 1.
Mill Hill East you'd probably have time if you're just waiting for the train to reverse.

I can't think of any others where you wouldn't normally exit the station.

This is totally ridiculous.

---

Upon explanation of what I had done, he told me, and I quote "London Underground is a serious system" and that it was "joyriders like you who drive the fares up".

Hugh, you should have told him though that "Every journey matters".

You could possibly get at those side barriers at H&W on Platform 1 though, or the platform readers on the Platform 2/3 island. The real killer is the West Ruislip - Ickenham OSI or the Walthamstow/Leytonstone one. Although there's platform readers at Walthamstow Central, so I suppose a double tap... yeah, none of this would work.

Geoff, I couldn't possibly make a joke. London Underground is a serious system.

Oyster FNC Route (off the Labyrinth one):

Chesham North Harrow Rayners Lane Ealing Common Ealing Broadway North Acton West Ruislip Ickenham Northwick Park Kenton Baker Street Aldgate East Aldgate Monument South Wimbledon Wimbledon Clapham Junction Shepherd's Bush Shepherd's Bush Snaresbrook Walthamstow Central Euston Edgware Canons Park Wembley Park King's Cross St Pancras High Barnet Cockfosters King's Cross St Pancras Hammersmith H&C Hammersmith D&P Gunnersbury Chiswick Park Acton Town Heathrow Terminal 5.

I don't know how long that would take, but there's a lot that's been shaved off. Perhaps another full network route would allow even more timesaving. Also, Upminster? Hainault loop? Watford? Amersham? Not to mention pretty much all of the Circle, the Richmond branch, Mill Hill East and the all important Olympia train.

Looking at your Tube 1, you seem to have:

Chesham North Harrow West Harrow Northwick Park Kenton Baker Street King's Cross St Pancras Edgware Stanmore Wembley Park King's Cross St Pancras Oakwood High Barnet Euston Walthamstow Central Liverpool Street Whitechapel New Cross New Cross Gate Whitechapel Aldgate East Aldgate Victoria Vauxhall Clapham Junction Kensington Olympia West Kensington Earl's Court Notting Hill Gate West Ruislip Ickenham Acton Town Heathrow Terminals 123 Paddington Shepherd's Bush Market Shepherd's Bush Oxford Circus Stockwell Morden.

[Urzzz1871]

So, these OSIs....... Am I right in thinking that if you touch back in at the second station within the alloted time then the journey is continuous?

Therefore a trip from, say Finsbury Park to Woodofrd via, Walthamstow, Walthamstow QR, Leytonstone HR and Leytonstone would be 1 journey, with an applied maximum journey time?


If this is the case, a touch out and back in at Woodford wont help, as Woodford-Woodford is listed as an allowed OSI with a 10 minute timer. It would consider it the same journey.

[DrainBrain]

Upon explanation of what I had done, he told me, and I quote "London Underground is a serious system" and that it was "joyriders like you who drive the fares up". He did let me out, though, and refund me, so it's OK.

With 1.265 billion annual passengers, we're such a tiny, tiny fraction. That's just a nonsense comment.
(Source: https://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about- ... nd-figures)

...
2. The (SW Trains) Waterloo and City line, the (West Anglia) Finsbury Park to Moorgate line, East London line and the Docklands Light Railway are not included in this attempt.
...
5. Stations which are geographically separate and not linked but which have the same name must each be visited. This applies to Shepherds Bush and Edgware Road.
...

Given Guinness rules 2 and 5 are clearly out of date, perhaps we should just be challenging them to improve the entire rule set.

[greatkingrat]

In theory it should be possible to buy a weekly zone 1-9 travelcard on Oyster, touch in and out wherever you like on the day of the attempt, then hand it back for a refund the following day.

[nozzacook]

I think a straight forward question to them along the lines I don't have an Oyster card can I use a paper ticket and see what they say.

[al]

In theory it should be possible to buy a weekly zone 1-9 travelcard on Oyster, touch in and out wherever you like on the day of the attempt, then hand it back for a refund the following day.

I considered that but there is an admin fee