A Non Run Route

[The Raven]

The record time has now reached a level where your average man (or woman, Sam) has no hope of breaking the record anyway.

Sam is no ordinary women though!

She's not a double world record holder for nothing!

[perkyperky]

Heavan forbid, I wasn't calling Sam an ordinary woman! Just that the average man or woman couldn't break the record. The bit in brackets was just to stop Sam accusing me of being sexist!

[tubeguru]

I believe the above is rubbish.

The record is breakable by anybody with a decent route. The main thing that has been preventing record breaking of late is the woeful provision of service by LU. How many abortions have we had due to delays or failures? Loads!

Average person my arse. It's not all about how fast you can run you know.

[moley]

I believe the above is rubbish.

The record is breakable by anybody with a decent route. The main thing that has been preventing record breaking of late is the woeful provision of service by LU. How many abortions have we had due to delays or failures? Loads!

Average person my arse. It's not all about how fast you can run you know.

I agree 100%

Now, as that is the entire moderation team of the forum in agreement - it must be law? No?

[MylesHSG]

Blah Blah Blah

Jesus I just want a completion to my name. I dont give a flying pigs bollocks about the GWR or spending hours and hours planning a route, only to find out its cack and start again. I didn't say to Andi "Can you plan me a route?" he just did it coz hes that sort of guy.

Bunch of tube challenge snobs the lot of you.....

[snudge27]

Blah Blah Blah

Jesus I just want a completion to my name. I dont give a flying pigs bollocks about the GWR or spending hours and hours planning a route, only to find out its cack and start again. I didn't say to Andi "Can you plan me a route?" he just did it coz hes that sort of guy.

Bunch of tube challenge snobs the lot of you.....

Not in the slightest, it's just the whole concept that you're expecting something for nothing. Your argument about only wanting a completion is like a benefit fraudster saying that the taxpayer should fund his lifestyle because he only wants a modest standard of living.

It's rather insulting that, when most of us spend hours working out optimal routes/connections and actually doing the research ourselves, someone comes on here and wants someone to do all the hard work for them because they can't be bothered. If you don't want to spend hours and hours planning a route, someone else has to... they don't just magically appear on a piece of paper.

The sooner you learn that if you want something in life you have to put in the effort, the better. Otherwise you're going to be in for a mighty shock when you're out in the real world trying to fend for yourself.

[perkyperky]

Ooh, okay! I feel like a criminal now. But seriously, some people want to set records and some just want to complete. I do take the point about working out your own route; it is part of the challenge. It is very satisfying when something you have worked for so long, actually works. And very frustrating when it doesn't.

[snudge27]

Ooh, okay! I feel like a criminal now. But seriously, some people want to set records and some just want to complete. I do take the point about working out your own route; it is part of the challenge. It is very satisfying when something you have worked for so long, actually works. And very frustrating when it doesn't.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's an excellent idea to either publicise Geoff's Heathrow - Chesham/Amersham route or come up with something that charity challengers can use to try and just complete the network in order to raise money. I'm all for that.

What's a different proposition is for certain people to use a huge chunk of their time on here seemingly begging people for all the information they can get and even going as far as to ask other members to do all the work for them.

I think moley's initial reply is perfect: "here's an idea, use it to come up with your own route, let me know how you get on".

[tubeguru]

I love the way that the biggest bone of contention in tube challenging circles is "how one comes to one's route".

And I think it should be - some people work for years to get a winning route. Those people get very defensive when they see other people doing what appears to them to be "piggybacking". Confusing things further is the situation where someone is invited onto a team, having had no previous input. It's not really fair to have a go at someone who does that, because you don't know if they've weasled their way onto the team, or whether the invite was unexpected.

I will always come down on the side of the people who believe that routes should be your own work, and that asking for help is a 100% no-no. I suppose you could call this whole thing the "X-Factor Principle" - all the fame with minimal work.

Note - the above does not criticise anyone.

[Going Underground]

The moment we agreed that CIN 2011 was going to be High Barnet Cockfosters I devoted hours, days and weeks planning and trying to get the fastest possible route even though it was never going to be anywhere near GWR... I think I had around 99 permatations a couple of weeks prior to the date and several contingengy plans for the day itself (As Glen and Nozza will confirm )
I did fear it but wasn't anticpating missing our very first connection of the day
This my friends as with Moor Park on at least a couple of occasions if where it can all go "tits up" very early in the piece

[RichieG]

I'm in agreement... There have been a couple of times where I've gone out to start a route plan, but haven't. I have only really done two routes - one which was really shit and missed a station out, although with a bit of tweaking it could be usable, and the other the one that was used for Andi's team for CiN, where me and Andi sat in a pub doing the route (the pizza stop was my idea ). I think it is the kind of person Andi is that he will willingly give old routes away - the other two times I've been out have been ex-Andi routes, both of which failed due to the service problems on the day.

My aim is to complete, not to get the record. Since my charity attempt for Tearfund a couple of years back, I've looked at the full network challenge akin to a marathon - knowing I'm not going to 'win', but want to complete. It still hasn't happened, and I'm going to go out until I do (although might end up missing Kenny O). I also want to do my own route, although I will admit that I came here to, wihle not specifically ask for a route, to get a few tips which is what I have done. I have also looked at other ways of doing things and getting places, even though they didn't, and probably won't, really work. For instance, my first route started at Upminster and went right down to Richmond and changing at Turnham Green to the Picc. That is a crap idea, but I had the idea and went to see if I could do it. I'm also wondering if it's plausible to do Watford - Watford High Street. It probably isn't, but it's a thought I've had on my own, even if other people have thought about it in the past.

I will admit that some of the bits I've picked up from going out with people, my first trip out to support Kev and co a while ago (can't remember who else was out) taught me a few things that I didn't realise, and although I could've thought about it I hadn't. Some of those may end up in my route, others not. I've not gone out asking specifically for a route, and if I end up on somebody's team for whatever reason I will withdraw if I feel that I'm holding them back while they're on a record-breaking time.

Any Challenger MUST go out onto the network to sort stuff out themselves. The R15 challenges or Zone 1 are quite a good way of doing this; there have been things I've found out on the last R15 that I would not have thought of for a FNC. Again, they probably won't work, or might be well known amongst seasoned challengers, but I've actually gone out and found out, even if only by accident (my 15 second train-to-next-platform interchange at KXSP for instance, purely by accident but exceptionally useful to know as I try and avoid changing at KXSP and now might think about it a bit more).

I'm not entirely certain whether publishing a route is worthwhile or not. I don't see that it is, as it could well become the 'definitive route'. But I do see how it could be as, as has been said, people doing a charity challenge could do it. Then again, my first time out was for charity, and I did feel that because I was using somebody else's route, I was cheating slightly as I hadn't put the work in (hence why I really want to go out on a route that I've done).

My routes are run-minimum as it happens, which is why I don't think I'll get a record. I'm not saying that running is essential to get a record as I know it's not, but I just think that it might help.

Any new challengers, take it from me: Create your own route. It doesn't matter if it's shit. Go out onto the network, try bits out. Some bits might work better than you think, some bits look good on paper but aren't practical - ie, buses that always run late on a certain route, an interchange that isn't as good as it looks (ie, a Green Park interchange), or things like that. Get your own door positions, find your own 'secret passageways' that speed up interchanges, and above all have good luck. A completion / record / whatever is down to luck as well.

[Going Underground]

Any new challengers, take it from me: Create your own route. It doesn't matter if it's shit. Go out onto the network, try bits out. Some bits might work better than you think, some bits look good on paper but aren't practical - ie, buses that always run late on a certain route, an interchange that isn't as good as it looks (ie, a Green Park interchange), or things like that. Get your own door positions, find your own 'secret passageways' that speed up interchanges, and above all have good luck. A completion / record / whatever is down to luck as well.

And that my friends is a huge part of the fun and self-satisfaction

[MylesHSG]

Not in the slightest, it's just the whole concept that you're expecting something for nothing. Your argument about only wanting a completion is like a benefit fraudster saying that the taxpayer should fund his lifestyle because he only wants a modest standard of living.

It's rather insulting that, when most of us spend hours working out optimal routes/connections and actually doing the research ourselves, someone comes on here and wants someone to do all the hard work for them because they can't be bothered. If you don't want to spend hours and hours planning a route, someone else has to... they don't just magically appear on a piece of paper.

The sooner you learn that if you want something in life you have to put in the effort, the better. Otherwise you're going to be in for a mighty shock when you're out in the real world trying to fend for yourself.

Not at all. I asked for help if you would read my OP. I did not expect Andi to ring me up last night saying he has a route for me. As it happened I did have a few ideas, but after thinking about it they were rubbish. And dont compare me to a benifit fraudster, you typical right wing dail mail reader twit.

[Sam]

A) stop being so rude to people there's no need for it. (unless your trying to be like your idol )
B) yes fair enough Andi has been nice enough to create a route for you. What you may have been better saying was that Andi has sent you a route as an idea of what to look at. It seems that you are happy enough to just go along with it!!
C) Andi can be nice in the real world but unfortunately his online presence is one of the complete opposite!!

[tubeguru]

Blimey, even when Andi is banned from the forum, he remains the common factor in just about every argument that is kicking off just recently.

I had hopes that we were embarking on a mature debate on route-planning here, but once again it's turned into a slanging match. So, with that in mind:

Myles - there's no need to insult someone just because you don't agree with their opinion.
Sam - try not to bite when such things come up.
uefacup81 - stop being right wing (this is the comedy part of the post - do not take seriously).

If we keep coming back to petty arguments in every thread then I'm going to start getting annoyed. As Steeeeeevooooooooooooooo asked in another thread, can we not just get through ONE thread without it getting personal?