Maidenhead to Victoria

[Starkey7]

Ah, cheers, finally I understand.

[Garion]

(and i'll give bonus points to anyone that can tell me why London Bridge & Bank on the Northern Line are right hand running as well ... )

To do with this maybe?

The northbound tunnel and platform converted into a concourse, and a new northbound tunnel and platform built in the late 1990s to increase the platform and circulation areas in preparation for the opening of the Jubilee Line.

[tubeguru]

Re: White City, also have a look at this ...

http://underground-history.co.uk/woodlane.php

It would be nice if whoever did this had continued taking pictures after 2006. I would imagine that there is no trace of the old Wood Lane station building above ground. Next time I go to Westfield (if I ever do), I will make a more detailed investigation of that street corner.

[Garion]

If I remember correctly, I think it was taken down for it to be rebuilt elsewhere. The transport museum maybe? I also got a feeling that it was taken down from the bottom up...if that's possible?

[Nigel]

(and i'll give bonus points to anyone that can tell me why London Bridge & Bank on the Northern Line are right hand running as well ... )

To do with this maybe?

The northbound tunnel and platform converted into a concourse, and a new northbound tunnel and platform built in the late 1990s to increase the platform and circulation areas in preparation for the opening of the Jubilee Line.

But Bank has been right hand running for as long as I can remember (i.e. well before the 1990s), so this can't be the sole reason.

[tubeguru]

Does it not have something to do with the Bank of England vaults and the need to tunnel around them?

Either that or it was the erstwhile King William Street station.

[jamesthegill]

Re: White City, also have a look at this ...

http://underground-history.co.uk/woodlane.php

It would be nice if whoever did this had continued taking pictures after 2006. I would imagine that there is no trace of the old Wood Lane station building above ground. Next time I go to Westfield (if I ever do), I will make a more detailed investigation of that street corner.

There is absolutely nothing there in that corner any longer. However, the lovely mosaic roundel from the original Wood Lane station is now resident in the underpass at the new Wood Lane just up the road.

[Garion]

Does it not have something to do with the Bank of England vaults and the need to tunnel around them?

Either that or it was the erstwhile King William Street station.

That's what I initially thought..when they extended the line in 1900.

[tubeguru]

http://www.districtdavesforum.co.uk/ind ... hread=6157

Looks like it was the position of King William Street, as I suspected, which is responsible for the layout of the Northern Line in the Bank and London Bridge area.

[tubeguru]

Quote:

"When the C&SLR was extended to Moorgate in 1900 and King William Street station was closed, as the lines at the junction were one above the other, it was convenient to make the lines through the new London Bridge station 'Right hand Running'. Normal left hand running was resumed between Bank and Moorgate stations. (Possibly the presence of the River above and the old King William Street line alongside made it impossible to change back before passing Bank station)."

[tubeguru]

And further, for those who can't be arsed to read all of that, from someone who I believe to be an authority on the C&SLR (as it was when it was built):

"When Greathead started constructing the C&SLR, he had to face a belief expressed by several prominent engineers that London Bridge would fall down if he tunnelled too close to it. Greathead therefore decided to build the controversial under-river section first.

He started work by sinking a shaft in the river just off of Swan Lane, from where he planned to start construction of the tunnels one above the other. This arrangement was necessary because there was no statuatory authority to pass beneath buildings. Swan Lane was the only suitable road that ran down to the north bank of the river, but was not wide enough to allow the tunnels to run side-by-side, so they had to be stacked on top of each other at that point. As a bonus, it saved him the problem of having to sink two shafts in the river.

From Old Swan Shaft, he proposed to build his tunnels out beneath the Thames, knowing that his two biggest challenges were:-

1. Constructing the closer of the two tunnels to London Bridge (because of the danger of damaging the bridge).
2. Constructing a tunnel too close to the bed of the river (because of the danger of the river breaking into the works, as experienced by Brunel in the Thames Tunnel).

To get both of these issues out of the way, he built the upper tunnel first (starting October 1886) and dropped it down to pass beneath the deepest point in the river bed. He also decided to make this the closest of the two tunnels to London Bridge. This meant that the most difficult part of the construction was the first to be completed. When the second tunnel was started in February 1887, it had to fit into the space between the first tunnel and the eastern limit of deviation (the ‘limit of deviation’ is a legal boundary approved by parliament beyond which the railway may not be constructed).

With the under-river tunnels complete, Greathead turned round and prepared to build the line towards King William Street. After passing one above the other along Swan Lane, the lines ran along Arthur Street West and had to align themselves side-by-side very quickly before entering King William Street station. This meant that the lower tunnel had a steeper climb into the station than the higher one.

The company chairman, Charles Grey Mott, did not favour cable traction and was already considering some form of powered locomotion, so it did not make sense to create an approach gradient that was steeper than necessary. It was therefore decided to make the higher tunnel the up (northbound) line, as this would give a more gentle - though still very steep - climb for trains entering King William Street station. The lower tunnel, with the crippling 1 in 14 rise became the down (southbound) line. In the end, that was exactly the right decision, as the electric locomotives had enough trouble with the 1 in 29 - an even steeper climb would have been virtually impossible for them.

So, by becoming the up line, the higher tunnel created a dilemma. Because it had been constructed closest to London Bridge when passing under the Thames, the running direction was the reverse of normal. To put the lines back in the right place, they were finally reversed by passing the down line beneath the up line between Borough and Elephant & Castle stations. Few staff and passengers realise that Borough is wrong way working, because this fact is totally concealed from them by the split level layout.

When the extension to Moorgate Street was built, it was decided to flip the lines back again. After breaking away from the old line north of the Borough, the tunnels had to drop down to pass beneath the original tubes. In order to keep the gradients under control, it was not possible to cross the lines back before London Bridge station. After London Bridge, the lines tackled the river and had to remain at a deep level to pass beneath the brick tunnel of King William Street station. After that there was not enough space to flip them over before they entered Bank station. The lines therefore crossed back between Bank and Moorgate Street.

A couple of points:-

1. Greathead was very much a seat-of-the-pants engineer and appears not always to have worked things out fully in advance. This is clearly demonstrated by his evidence to parliamentary committees when applying for authority to construct a line. When asked how he was going to do something, he appeared to make things up only to change them after giving the matter some thought. This does not mean that he was a bad engineer, it seems just to have been a case of, ‘We will solve that when we get to it’. That quote, incidentally, was not from the mouth of Greathead, just in case anyone reads this and thinks of attributing it to him (one of the problems of the internet!)

2. The C&SLR always planned to have a station at London Bridge, but it was never built on the original line due to a dispute with a main line company over the provision of a covered way.

3. The original layout at King William Street was a single track terminus as necessitated by cable operation. This was later converted to a two-track island platform. Stockwell was built after the decision was made to use electricity and so always had a two-track island platform layout.

4. Although parliament would not pass an Act allowing the C&SLR wayleave beneath buildings, the company reached a private agreement with the owner of Hibernia Wharf to pass beneath a corner of their building. This was the only way to get the tracks back beneath a highway on the south side of the river.
I do not think that anyone has ever pointed out that the tunnels actually diverge from their permitted line of deviation at this point and actually pass beneath a larger part of the building than the 'corner' that Greathead suggested."

[Garion]

Nice history lesson