Guinness "ruling" - Shoreditch still in!

[geofftech]

Can I just say:

1) Told you so. (Sorry, smug I know - yes, but I am not at all suprised)

2) If everyone bombards Guinness with emails, letters - whether polite, stroppy, or whatever, it's not going to make a blind bit of difference.

Why do you you think the record no longer appears in the book?


> Because they don't care that much about it! <

If we hassle them, it could get to the point where their stance is then one of "This is too much hassle, and we can't be bothered with all these people asking us about this, we're going to no longer officially recognise it as a record".

Guinness are in the 'world record' business for one thing - and the clue there is the world "business". They like making money out of the copies of the book they sell each year.

Us running round on trains and doing this isn't something that has global appeal, it's quite a niche thing and that's why they don't care about it.

And as I've said before, I strongly suspect that TFL/LU have been in touch with Guinness and asked them not to promote it, as we all know that TFL/LU don't like us doing this.

[PFW]

Two things occur to me:

1 – GWR are not going to have detailed knowledge of all of the records they recognise, so they must turn to somebody for advice on the details of what is happening. On Tube Challenge there is only one body who could provide the info they need and that is TfL. TfL have no interest in us doing challenges so will try to make the rules impossible. Thus the current situation. I also think that us blaming GWR for the current ruling may be a case of us shooting the messenger.

2 – Who do GWR turn to for other records? They cannot verify every record out there so they must recognise some professional bodies, such as IOC, PGA, AAA, RFU etc who they trust not only to actually set the rules of the event but can verify successful record attempts.

Surely a solution to the current farcical situation is for those people who know about and have an interest in Tube Challenge to act as the rule making and verifying body, ie, some of us who know about Tube Challenge but are no longer interested in further attempts could form the rule setting and verifying body on behalf of GWR.

The added bonus is that it would make TfL as relevant to Tube Challenge as Robert McAlpine is to the London Marathon.

[Root]

Robert McAlpine? I'm tempted to say "who?", but that's no doubt the whole point.

I did once mention that we should rebel and form our own records committe... but jokingly. When people try for a World Record, they always go via Guinness. If you say to someone "I have a Tube Challenge World Record" that hasn't been endorsed by Guinness, you won't get anywhere near the same respect and awe from friends and family. Not that that's why we do it, but part of the desire to get the best time is to say: I'm the BEST in the World at something. Would you get that if formed our own governing body?

[geofftech]

Oddly enough, I've just updated my pages here this week:

http://www.geofftech.co.uk/tubechallenge/others.htm

as i had a chap get in touch with me who did the record four times back in the 1960's. Have a look at my page.

Back then, there was a society known as 'The London Underground Rovers' who did indeed oversee/officate all record attempts before Guinness did and act as sort of 'governing body'.

Can I put myself forward then for being on any new 'governing body' that we may form? I have no interest in doing all 275 again.

[joy54]

Looks like I've been missed off the list again:) , interesting page about the LUR though.

[PFW]

Robert McAlpine? I'm tempted to say "who?", but that's no doubt the whole point.

The name of a major road building company - often building roads in London

I did once mention that we should rebel and form our own records committe... but jokingly. When people try for a World Record, they always go via Guinness. If you say to someone "I have a Tube Challenge World Record" that hasn't been endorsed by Guinness, you won't get anywhere near the same respect and awe from friends and family. Not that that's why we do it, but part of the desire to get the best time is to say: I'm the BEST in the World at something. Would you get that if formed our own governing body?

If we got Guinness to recognise the group then they could have a 'rubberstamping' role and simply agree with the committee and issue a certificate. Much as they rubberstamp the judgements of the International Olympic Committee.

[nozzacook]

I believe that an independant governing body could work. By drawing up a set of rules and then having them endorsed by GWR. The Governing body could oversee all tube challenge attempts and be a single source of approach to GWR when the record is broken. Which should give us the credibility with them that we deserve.

As it is going to be sometime before I can attempt another 275 I would be happy to stand for or assist the the governing body.

Hopefully with effort we can bet this project off the ground and in to being.

[dr_chris]

With the uni workload building up I will have decreased time to carry out All-Stations attempts, as such any attempts within the forseeable future will be mostly charity-based - therefore am well up for being involved in any governing body formed by the Tube Challenge community (and will have no bias in confirming new records considering that I am well pissed off my friends broke one without me being involved!)

[tubeguru]

Initially, something about the whole "let's form our own body" struck me as a bad idea, and it's this:

Forgive me for being cynical, but anyone with not even the slightest idea of how to administer a simple organisation is going to struggle to keep on top of it.

I also don't think that anyone who is, or is considering becoming actively involved in tube challenging should be allowed anywhere near the running and organisation of such a body - which covers almost everybody on this site at the moment.

Mind you, having said that, I've been coming to the conclusion over the last few months that I have no desire to go out there and do tube challenges ever again (the odd Zone 1 challenge excepted). The 275 record has been achieved, and even a confirmed defeat by five seconds won't entice me into going back into training any time soon. You only need to break the record once to hold it.

Having been involved in the setting up of a registered limited company from scratch over the last five years I know that even the simplest thing can defeat those who go into these things full of enthusiasm but with no experience, no matter how serious the organisation.

Therefore, if the tube challenging community based on this website is going to commit itself to setting up a new body to administer such attempts, it is probably best if the setting up and running of such a thing is put in the hands of the, how can I put it, more mature and responsible section of the userbase, as well as those who are not too bothered if they ever do a tube challenge ever again.

If I could just return to the point about people taking part in challenges being involved in the admin side of things, I personally would consider it inappropriate for active challengers to have any part in the running of such a body - impartiality is key. Would you let a criminal run the Home Office?

That's my take on it folks. And for the record, I'd be happy to take the lead here, if no one has any objections.

[PFW]

Tubeguru - I think that you may be underestimating the organisational abilities of the members of this forum! Modesty forbids me from going into the details of my experince, but handling organisations like this is the type of thing I have done in my spare time.

Secondly, I agree that whoever sits on the body should be somebody who is not planning to do an attempt (I stated this in the post that kicked this off) If somebody changes theie mind and decided to do an attempt then they should be asked to step down. However, it is important that the group does have members who are familiar with Tube Challenge and London Underground as well as good administrators and assessors.

Thirdly, we certainly need to avoid anybody who may try to hijack and use it as an ego trip. Nomitations, seconding and voting will be needed to ensure that the commiittee is representative.

I think that many of us have the measure of each other from this forum so some nominations should be straight forward, but we should try to look outside this group and nominate on ability and knowledge alone.

[joy54]

I can't see this working too well if you have members of the body stepping down to do an attempt, after having reviewed others attempts gaining overall knowledge of their routes, secrets etc. At least with Guinness you can guarentee that your information is secret, whereas if you have people stepping down whenever they want to have an attempt I could see that as a very unfair advantage.

[Steeevooo]

That was my first thought upon reading through most of this thread. Realistically, the only way that this would work is for some people outside the community, who have no overriding interest in Tube Challenge to form the board. However, to find people that would fit this role and yet remain impartial would be nigh on impossible in such a small, close-knit community such as this.

[PFW]

Good point, Joy 54.

[tubeguru]

Yes, I agree.

In fact, would it be going too far to suggest that anyone on the "committee" gives an undertaking NOT to ever attempt a 275?

And I had no intention of undermining anyone's organisational skills

Nominations are a fair and sensible way to go about things - ego trips are not needed in circumstances like these, so I agree mostly with what everyone has said on the matter so far.

[editorsfoot]

Does anyone have any contact with any tube challengers of days gone by who would bring gravitas to any body that is formed, Bob Robinson for example? Likewise do we have any contact with the people who ran the London Underground Rovers as to how their group operated?

I would agree that this group sounds like a good idea, I will gladly help in anyway I can, although I would be the first to say I am active at tube challenging at present.