Paddington, why 2 visits?

[sweek]

It's probably because it's simply easier to change to the circle/district at Edgware Road and to the Bakerloo at Baker Street, although I've never done the latter. Maybe they just want to show people what the easier interchange is?

[zeibura]

I think that Zeibura is saying that at least one of the First Great Western platforms is even long enough to reach as far as Royal Oak station. I haven't checked this for myself, though.

I don't think it is, you know... I go past that way whenever I'm going to London, and while Royal Oak is indeed practically inside Paddington station, from what I recall there's lots of junction-boxy stuff between there and where the platforms start.

(Apologies for displaying my ignorance of the workings of railways here. I'm here as a network topology geek, not a train geek...)

well last time i was standing at royal oak station i could see at least one platform with a sign on, saying "london paddington". that's all i'm going by, though i doubt there are many trains that reach back that far.

[Going Underground]

Apologies for the bump on this one...

I have today received a copy of the rules from Guinness and as per number 2) "Stations which are Geographically seperate and not linked but which have the same name must each be visited. This applies to Shepherds Bush and Edgware Road."

There is no mention of either Paddington or Hammersmith...

Therefore I have 2 points....

1) By specifically contacting Guinness about these two stations are we not "putting words into their mouths" and is it really necessary to visit 'both' of them on a GWR attempt?

2) Is it necessary to visit 'both' Paddington's on a Z1 attempt?

[tubeguru]

Well, for a start there's no real advantage in NOT visiting both Hammersmiths on a 275 challenge because in order to miss out the H&C station you'd have to either turn around at Goldhawk Road or get a bus/run to or from that station, and that's just silly.

Missing out the District/Piccadilly Hammersmith is equally pointless, as you'd have to turn at the stations either side of it to intentionally miss it out and what's the point of that?

Hammersmith is easier if you DO visit both stations in my opinion ... it lends itself to flowing travel.

Paddington - once again the same thing applies for a 275. If you miss out the H&C Paddington, you can easily incorporate a turn/change of train at Edgware Road, but what about Royal Oak? Couple that with missing out the H&C Hammersmith and you've got a section of pink line which you have to do by travelling by bus/foot to Goldhawk Road and Royal Oak - complete insanity.

Missing out the main Paddington tube station on a 275 - good luck trying to actively avoid it - you'd lose so much time at both Edgware Roads, Bayswater and Warwick Avenue.

With regard to a Zone 1 at Paddington, missing out the H&C station makes the whole thing a lot easier, as it's just one station "marooned" on its own. Whether you choose to ignore it is up to you ...

After all, we hardly regulate these things do we? Maybe we should have WITH and WITHOUT Paddington H&C Z1 Challenge times.

In conclusion - there is no clear advantage whatsoever in missing out either Hammersmith or Paddington station on a 275 challenge. If you can find one then we've all been doing something very wrong for the last 40 years ...

[hwolge]

First of all:

http://www.tubechallenge.com/forum/view ... &view=next

Also, tubeguru, on our record breaking run (to be confirmed) the other week, we used a route that would statistically benefit some 5 minutes from not visiting Hammersmith (H&C). But maybe our route does not have a proper flow in it...

Historically the H&C Paddington station was called Bishop's Road (as opposed to Praed Street. Some info is available here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paddington_Station

[tubeguru]

Here's a challenge for you then:

Produce a route which visits only the H&C stations at Hammersmith and Paddington AND beats 18 hours 30 minutes.

[sweek]

It's probably because it's simply easier to change to the circle/district at Edgware Road and to the Bakerloo at Baker Street, although I've never done the latter. Maybe they just want to show people what the easier interchange is?

I just wanted to tell you that I checked this with a friend of mine who works for LU, and this is indeed the reason... just trying to make people use the easier interchange.

[hwolge]

I fully agree that skipping Hammersmith (Dis/Pic) is not a viable option - and probably not skipping Paddington (Cir/Dis/Bak) either.

However, if Paddington (H&C) could be skipped I imagine the 800m run between Warwick avenue and Royal Oak could be interesting...

So, yes, I think a good route with only one Paddington and one Hammersmith is quite possible (skipping both H&C stations).

[hwolge]

It's probably because it's simply easier to change to the circle/district at Edgware Road and to the Bakerloo at Baker Street, although I've never done the latter. Maybe they just want to show people what the easier interchange is?

I just wanted to tell you that I checked this with a friend of mine who works for LU, and this is indeed the reason... just trying to make people use the easier interchange.

But a similar explanation is no good for Hammersmith, since there is no other reasonable change available. So I'd say, that in this case the reason must be the physical separation of the stations...

[Going Underground]

Some very interesting feedback on this....

I would have thought along the same lines as Neil with regard to there not being any advantage in not visiting both Hammersmith's and Paddington's on a full 275 but as Hakan has mentioned maybe his route would have benefited by 5 mins without the H & C visit... Perhaps Hakan could run something through his computer programme ommiting the H & C on both or either stations and see what it comes up with?

I agree that for the purposes of Z1 it would certainly be advantageous not to have visit Paddington H & C and as this is NOT a recognised GWR I see no reason why we can't regulate this ourselves by means of a poll similiar to the recent "Bottle" debate...

It would seem a bit long winded to have Z1 times WITH and WITHOUT Paddington H & C....

[hwolge]

I agree that for the purposes of Z1 it would certainly be advantageous not to have visit Paddington H & C and as this is NOT a recognised GWR I see no reason why we can't regulate this ourselves by means of a poll similiar to the recent "Bottle" debate...

You are wrong! GWR does clearly recognise BOTH Paddingtons and Hammersmiths, as they clearly stated upon my explicit question:

http://www.tubechallenge.com/forum/view ... &view=next

Furthermore - if you study the diplomas available (at Geoff's site and on this forum) you clearly see that GWR has a count of 275 and no less!

[Starkey7]

I think that the Zone 1 challenge should stay as it is. Both Paddingtons are in Zone 1, and we should keep to a mirror of the full record rules as much as we can.

[Going Underground]

I agree that for the purposes of Z1 it would certainly be advantageous not to have visit Paddington H & C and as this is NOT a recognised GWR I see no reason why we can't regulate this ourselves by means of a poll similiar to the recent "Bottle" debate...

You are wrong! GWR does clearly recognise BOTH Paddingtons and Hammersmiths, as they clearly stated upon my explicit question:

http://www.tubechallenge.com/forum/view ... &view=next

Furthermore - if you study the diplomas available (at Geoff's site and on this forum) you clearly see that GWR has a count of 275 and no less!

Sorry perhaps I didn't make it clear what I was trying to say here. I was not disputing the entire network, I was saying that for the purposes of a Zone 1 challenge we can decide ourselves on the forum whether to include H & C Paddington as Zone 1 is NOT covered by GWR.....
Hope this makes sense now!