Re: Guinness world record regulations
Posted: 11 Aug 2017, 16:06
Resurrecting this post as I try to ensure I have considered everything ahead of an upcoming attempt, and after a NW corner test run this morning (that I'll try to write up separately).
I know that is not the forum I have to convince, but what I am interpreting from GWRs is that the main aim is provide enough burden of proof to show that no possible cheating took place. Incidentally, the recent BBC article around independent witnesses and records made me think about this too (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-ma ... r-40751179)
With that in mind, what am I attempting to do get enough evidence:
- Go-Pro strapped to the chest - I've worked out that the battery life is the limiting factor here. Each battery only last 1:45mins at the lowest resolution video. I've managed to borrow 3 batteries, but simple maths says that still isn't enough. 32GB SD card, allows me to film all 12 miles or so of runs in the day. I'm considering whether platform changes/line changes need videoing too, or whether it is just me that thinks proving the speed of the long changes like Green Park, King Cross, etc is worth documenting, if time-stamped photos/logbook/train number/etc prove the trains I'm changing onto. GWR says to include a minimum of, "a) Footage of the start of the attempt, showing the doors closing, and with a timepiece clearly visible; b) any transfers between lines made on foot or by scheduled public transport; c) The end of the attempt, showing the challenger’s arrival on to the final platform, and with a timepiece clearly visible. " - I'm taking "transfers between lines made on foot" as meaning the ones outside of the network, but I may go safe and try and do all changes, but it just adds an extra thing to remember to do at every transition point.... and one more thing to potentially forget
- Photos - Found a great free app simply called "Time Stamp" (or 99p to remove the ads), that time stamps date and time to the nearest second. GWR says, "It is essential that evidence of a visit to each station is provided", "A photograph must be taken of the arrival at each station. The photograph must include the time the photograph was taken, either as a digital timestamp or in the form of a clock visible in the frame of the image" - It doesn't say that I have to be in the them. Getting the roundels/station name is ok if that is all that is required. Getting a selfie with me and the roundel, without rushing up and down the carriage and scaring other passengers is proving more challenging I'm also considering using this to keep a track of doors opening/closing on each station, rather than keeping a log book as I go (I might do both). I'm going to work on the basis of getting my ugly mug in every photo that I possibly can (central London during peak going to tougher), but accepting that getting a time stamped photo of EVERY station is more important (without having to fall back on some of the previous articles I've seen of justifying based on time stamped station either side)
QUESTION: Doublebacks - I'm clearly going through places like Hillingdon and Croxley twice on my double-backs. Do people think I need to capture photographic evidence of both times, or is the log-book sufficient?
- Train numbers - I've accepted that I'm not going to get every single one, particularly if I'm going to be making some tight changes when the train is already in the station. So far on my test runs, the train number HAS been the one I was expecting on the WTT. I will at least be able to identify which train number I planned to get, and verify when I did in fact get that one. No mention of photos of train numbers required, but I might try to capture them. Also realised at the end of each line (except central terminus like Brixton and Elephant), that keeping my eyes peeled as I come into the station on one train I can potentially spy it for the outgoing one I plan to catch. I don't see any reasonable way of waiting for a train to depart just to attempt to catch the train number, which may not be displayed on the rear of the train
Log Book - GWR says, "A logbook detailing every stage of the journey, i.e. the time of arrival and departure from each station, the train number, line changes, commutes between lines and stations, etc. must be maintained. This book should illustrate clearly the route followed". I have a planned route, with some planned diversions if there are delays/my legs fail on some of the runs, so I will attempt to pre-populate the main bits, and over-write anything that changes, adding in the departure and arrival times of each station/train. I've really no idea what purpose this serves to GWR, and whether that is determined by doors opening/closing (clear on the start and finish of attempt), and how accurate that needs to be for them to verify. As earlier, I will attempt to time stamp photo the arrival, roundel and departure, and then log then into the book between stations. I presume for transitions, only the arrival time needs to be noted...?
Oyster Card log - easily downloaded, and therefore swaying me over a paper ticket. Already set up on-line and tracking all my journeys for over a year (which is quite scary to think I have a permanent record of where I've been - future telling police evidence?!)
QUESTION: I've seen several people suggest oyster card with day travel card over contactless. No one seems to be clear why. Cost should be the same due to capping, and if OSI triggers mean they charge me twice on the day to go over the cap, I will simply challenge the fare after the event (it will be easy to see from my history that I've travelled all lines and all day!)
Witnesses - GWR says, "a book must be made available for additional independent witnesses to sign.... for each potential witness: a) Date and Time, b) Location, c) Name and d) Signature". It doesn't really say how many required, or how frequent, but I'm sure I read somewhere that at least every two hours. I'm going to aim to grab one on each of the longer commutes, with ideally one on each tube line, with an aim of 10-15 over the course of the day. Does anyone know how many would be considered a reasonable number?
Start and finish witnesses - An ongoing saga, of who counts as independent, and how many people I can rope in at each end of the day. Clear that I can't carry the master stopwatch, but attempting to find someone to transport it for me (unclear whether they also need to be independent). Arguably the hardest bit of the challenge!
This definitely makes a solo effort far more difficult, although I can see why they want to maintain integrity of records - but it definitely has felt like more of an effort considering what evidence will be accepted (and may not ultimately...) vs some of the route planning and training runs!!!
What do other people think? Presume some of these were in place when previous records were set, but the videos/witnesses numbers/independence seems to be new since the record was last set?
I know that is not the forum I have to convince, but what I am interpreting from GWRs is that the main aim is provide enough burden of proof to show that no possible cheating took place. Incidentally, the recent BBC article around independent witnesses and records made me think about this too (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-ma ... r-40751179)
With that in mind, what am I attempting to do get enough evidence:
- Go-Pro strapped to the chest - I've worked out that the battery life is the limiting factor here. Each battery only last 1:45mins at the lowest resolution video. I've managed to borrow 3 batteries, but simple maths says that still isn't enough. 32GB SD card, allows me to film all 12 miles or so of runs in the day. I'm considering whether platform changes/line changes need videoing too, or whether it is just me that thinks proving the speed of the long changes like Green Park, King Cross, etc is worth documenting, if time-stamped photos/logbook/train number/etc prove the trains I'm changing onto. GWR says to include a minimum of, "a) Footage of the start of the attempt, showing the doors closing, and with a timepiece clearly visible; b) any transfers between lines made on foot or by scheduled public transport; c) The end of the attempt, showing the challenger’s arrival on to the final platform, and with a timepiece clearly visible. " - I'm taking "transfers between lines made on foot" as meaning the ones outside of the network, but I may go safe and try and do all changes, but it just adds an extra thing to remember to do at every transition point.... and one more thing to potentially forget
- Photos - Found a great free app simply called "Time Stamp" (or 99p to remove the ads), that time stamps date and time to the nearest second. GWR says, "It is essential that evidence of a visit to each station is provided", "A photograph must be taken of the arrival at each station. The photograph must include the time the photograph was taken, either as a digital timestamp or in the form of a clock visible in the frame of the image" - It doesn't say that I have to be in the them. Getting the roundels/station name is ok if that is all that is required. Getting a selfie with me and the roundel, without rushing up and down the carriage and scaring other passengers is proving more challenging I'm also considering using this to keep a track of doors opening/closing on each station, rather than keeping a log book as I go (I might do both). I'm going to work on the basis of getting my ugly mug in every photo that I possibly can (central London during peak going to tougher), but accepting that getting a time stamped photo of EVERY station is more important (without having to fall back on some of the previous articles I've seen of justifying based on time stamped station either side)
QUESTION: Doublebacks - I'm clearly going through places like Hillingdon and Croxley twice on my double-backs. Do people think I need to capture photographic evidence of both times, or is the log-book sufficient?
- Train numbers - I've accepted that I'm not going to get every single one, particularly if I'm going to be making some tight changes when the train is already in the station. So far on my test runs, the train number HAS been the one I was expecting on the WTT. I will at least be able to identify which train number I planned to get, and verify when I did in fact get that one. No mention of photos of train numbers required, but I might try to capture them. Also realised at the end of each line (except central terminus like Brixton and Elephant), that keeping my eyes peeled as I come into the station on one train I can potentially spy it for the outgoing one I plan to catch. I don't see any reasonable way of waiting for a train to depart just to attempt to catch the train number, which may not be displayed on the rear of the train
Log Book - GWR says, "A logbook detailing every stage of the journey, i.e. the time of arrival and departure from each station, the train number, line changes, commutes between lines and stations, etc. must be maintained. This book should illustrate clearly the route followed". I have a planned route, with some planned diversions if there are delays/my legs fail on some of the runs, so I will attempt to pre-populate the main bits, and over-write anything that changes, adding in the departure and arrival times of each station/train. I've really no idea what purpose this serves to GWR, and whether that is determined by doors opening/closing (clear on the start and finish of attempt), and how accurate that needs to be for them to verify. As earlier, I will attempt to time stamp photo the arrival, roundel and departure, and then log then into the book between stations. I presume for transitions, only the arrival time needs to be noted...?
Oyster Card log - easily downloaded, and therefore swaying me over a paper ticket. Already set up on-line and tracking all my journeys for over a year (which is quite scary to think I have a permanent record of where I've been - future telling police evidence?!)
QUESTION: I've seen several people suggest oyster card with day travel card over contactless. No one seems to be clear why. Cost should be the same due to capping, and if OSI triggers mean they charge me twice on the day to go over the cap, I will simply challenge the fare after the event (it will be easy to see from my history that I've travelled all lines and all day!)
Witnesses - GWR says, "a book must be made available for additional independent witnesses to sign.... for each potential witness: a) Date and Time, b) Location, c) Name and d) Signature". It doesn't really say how many required, or how frequent, but I'm sure I read somewhere that at least every two hours. I'm going to aim to grab one on each of the longer commutes, with ideally one on each tube line, with an aim of 10-15 over the course of the day. Does anyone know how many would be considered a reasonable number?
Start and finish witnesses - An ongoing saga, of who counts as independent, and how many people I can rope in at each end of the day. Clear that I can't carry the master stopwatch, but attempting to find someone to transport it for me (unclear whether they also need to be independent). Arguably the hardest bit of the challenge!
This definitely makes a solo effort far more difficult, although I can see why they want to maintain integrity of records - but it definitely has felt like more of an effort considering what evidence will be accepted (and may not ultimately...) vs some of the route planning and training runs!!!
What do other people think? Presume some of these were in place when previous records were set, but the videos/witnesses numbers/independence seems to be new since the record was last set?