Zone 1 Challenge Day clarification required

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CrunchySaviour
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Zone 1 Challenge Day clarification required

Post by CrunchySaviour »

Hello, all. Many of the stations on the station starting list for May 20th are inconvenient. That is to say, they are at either end of a run.

Would it be possible to start by running from the first station to another (starting the timer when exiting the ticket barriers perhaps), provided that the station is later arrived at or departed from on a LU train?

Or do we have to start by leaving the start station on a train?

Sorry to complicate things.
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hwolge
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Post by hwolge »

A more general rule question (theoretically also applying to the Guinness Challenge). Is it permissible to do a run to the last station?

It could easily happen in the Zone 1 challenge in Paddington (H&C). Obviously the station would be visited if you embark on a train and it departs, but then again, the "when the doors open at the last station" can hardly be applied...

:?: :?:
HÃ¥kan
lazza747

Post by lazza747 »

No, you can't run TO the last station because the rules state that you must arrive AND/OR depart by train.

You'll be arriving on foot and err, stopping.

You have to arrive at the last station by train.
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hwolge
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Post by hwolge »

I accept your "ruling", since it makes a lot of sense!

However, I stated:

"Obviously the station would be visited if you embark on a train and it departs".

Why is this not so then?

It's just a theoretical question - of no or little importance...

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geofftech
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Post by geofftech »

Surely you can arrive at the last station on foot, but to make it valid - you then have to get on a train which then departs!

The second that it moves - clock that time! - that's when you finished, as you've noe 'done' that station by leaving it.
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Post by CrunchySaviour »

That makes sense. What, then, about the first station on the Challenge Day?

Can we start by walking out of the station? When exactly would the timer start?

Alternatively, could we start by ARRIVING at the start station on a train, the timer starting when the doors open? That would facilitate a run direct from the start station, but would be fiddly having to go out on a train, change and come back.
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lazza747

Post by lazza747 »

geofftech wrote:Surely you can arrive at the last station on foot, but to make it valid - you then have to get on a train which then departs!

The second that it moves - clock that time! - that's when you finished, as you've noe 'done' that station by leaving it.
Good point - I like it.

But what if you run to the station, find yourself on a blinder of a time and then have to wait 5 minutes for a train which you find later has actually dropped you to third or fourth place?

Since you have no idea who has what time, can you afford to run there and wait for a train to depart?
lazza747

Post by lazza747 »

CrunchySaviour wrote:That makes sense. What, then, about the first station on the Challenge Day?

Can we start by walking out of the station? When exactly would the timer start?

Alternatively, could we start by ARRIVING at the start station on a train, the timer starting when the doors open? That would facilitate a run direct from the start station, but would be fiddly having to go out on a train, change and come back.
The 'timer' starts when the train you get on at the start station moves.

So, let's assume we're all at Lancaster Gate. Everyone electing to take the first westbound train towards Queensway start their watches the second it moves. Ditto people on the eastbound to Marble Arch.

Simple.
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CrunchySaviour
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Post by CrunchySaviour »

The 'timer' starts when the train you get on at the start station moves.

So, let's assume we're all at Lancaster Gate. Everyone electing to take the first westbound train towards Queensway start their watches the second it moves. Ditto people on the eastbound to Marble Arch.

Simple.
That's fair enough, because that's how it works. But what if you want to start the challenge with a run, if that's how you planned your route? Is it compulsory to start on a train from the first station, thereby causing you to change your route?
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lazza747

Post by lazza747 »

CrunchySaviour wrote:
The 'timer' starts when the train you get on at the start station moves.

So, let's assume we're all at Lancaster Gate. Everyone electing to take the first westbound train towards Queensway start their watches the second it moves. Ditto people on the eastbound to Marble Arch.

Simple.
That's fair enough, because that's how it works. But what if you want to start the challenge with a run, if that's how you planned your route? Is it compulsory to start on a train from the first station, thereby causing you to change your route?
You can't start youre route with a run because you have to arrive or depart on a train. Now you'll say "we arrived on the train we all came down on" but then how do you decide where to start the clock?

Does it have to be this complicated?
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CrunchySaviour
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Post by CrunchySaviour »

It doesn't have to be this complicated, I just wanted it to be.

Sorry!
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Ewan
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Post by Ewan »

Okay, the timer would start on the closing of the doors of the tube train., You can be on either side of the doors. If you decide to run on foot, then fine, but...

...as you have not arrived or departed on a train, you cannot 'count' that station as a visit, so must visit it later in your travels. These are the published rules and how I read them.
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Post by geofftech »

Yup, what Ewan says makes sense to me.

You have to visit each station (arrive at, depart from, pass through), and the random starting point deliberately makes it more tricky.

That's sort of the whole point!

I think it's a good test for 'on the fly' judgment and thinking, and not necessarily who's sat down and plotted out the best route which is then just put into practise in an automated fashion.

I've updated my webpages with all the latest details about it here:

http://www.geofftech.co.uk/tubechalleng ... /index.htm
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hwolge
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Post by hwolge »

I hate to be picky, but I think recent information has added to the confusion here. According to rules on this site, the following applies:

"The choice of departure direction from the start station is entirely your decision and you should not start timing your run until the train you elect to take starts to move away from the station."

and further down (in the footnotes section):

"[1] Olympia trains may be taken to Earl's Court from High Street Kensington"

Until today, my interpretation of the word "direction" from these two pieces of information has been the next train with the desired destination. I.e. starting at High Street Kensington, I can, at my own discretion, wait for a District train via Earl's Court and not be obliged to catch the first train in that general direction, e.g. a counter clockwise Circle train.

However, now Geoff writes :shock: http://www.geofftech.co.uk/tubechalleng ... /index.htm the following: (in the paragraph about Jack Welsby)

"...and note the official departure times of the two starting trains.

thus effectivly eliminating the free choice of "direction" as I first interpreted it... :(

Which interpretation should apply? :?: Can Geoff and Tubeguru please straighten this issue?

There is also a very minor, indeed, discrepancy on whether door closing or actual departure should apply...

HÃ¥kan
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geofftech
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Post by geofftech »

Yes that is being picky!

Ok then .. THREE trains in the case of HSK. I was thinking that in the majoroty of the stations there would only be two directions you would want to go in. With HSK there are of course, three.

I can't think of anywhere else that this would happen though, unless you can ...

It's quite logical and straightforward though when you think about it:

A starting station is chosen.

You leave on a train in whatever direction you want to, and start your stopwatch at that point.

That's it!
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