Geoff's Tube 18 - 13th February 2012

Write-ups from those with over 21 full network challenge attempts
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Root
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Re: 13th February 2012

Post by Root »

It's because the guy in charge at the big round building on Queen's walk wears a blue tie. Expect it all to be crap again if a guy wearing a red tie moves back in later this year.
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Re: 13th February 2012

Post by jamesthegill »

Root wrote:It's because the guy in charge at the big round building on Queen's walk wears a blue tie. Expect it all to be crap again if a guy wearing a red tie moves back in later this year.
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Re: 13th February 2012

Post by hopeful traveller »

Sam wrote:
hopeful traveller wrote:
geofftech wrote:[rant at TfL]
The average journey time is down on the Jubilee Line and it is more reliable now. The official completion date of the upgrade was June '11, after which, the journey times decreased significantly.

Victoria is to be completed this year.
Are you the head of TfL or something.... The jubilee line is DIRE compared to what it used to be!!
The actual TFL figures from 13 Nov - 10 Dec 11: (highlighted bits that have been discussed)

Percentage of Schedule:

Nov-Dec 2010: 93.9%
Oct-Nov 2011: 97.5%
Nov-Dec 2011: 97.4%
Target: 96.7%

Excess Journey times:

7.84 mins
6.04 mins
5.82 mins
6.62 mins

Total Journey Times:

Nov-Dec 2010: 45.94 mins
Oct-Nov 2011: 44.05 mins
Nov-Dec 2011: 43.69 mins
Morning Annual Average: 44.15 mins

Percentage of scheduled kilometres operated is:

Period 8 Period 9 Target
Bakerloo 96.2 97.6 96.9
Central 97.3 96.6 97.2
Victoria 96.2 96.7 95.5
District 97.9 98.2 97.4
Metropolitan 97.3 96.4 96.9
Circle & Hamm 96.2 96.7 92.8
Jubilee 97.7 97.4 94.8
Northern 98.5 99.2 98.0
Piccadilly 97.6 96.8 97.4
Waterloo & City 98.4 99.5 95.7
NETWORK 97.5 97.4 96.7
Higher percentages represent better performance


Percentage of schedule remained ahead of the network target at 97.4%, although three lines recorded small shortfalls. On the Central line services were suspended between White City and Marble Arch for 5 hours on 16 November due to a track fault, and the line also suffered passenger ill on train incidents on 5 and 9 December and operator shortage on 10 December. A track circuit failure at North Harrow on 13 November, a signal failure at Chalfont on 10 December and several defective
train incidents reduced Metropolitan line performance. Piccadilly line services were disrupted in the first week of the period by a cracked rail and a signal failure at Covent Garden and passenger action at Green Park.

Excess Journey Time:

Period 8 Period 9 Target
Bakerloo 4.06 3.72 4.64
Central 5.76 6.16 5.84
Victoria 6.83 6.66 7.22
District 3.16 2.67 3.75
Metropolitan 6.28 6.28 6.82
Circle & Hamm 5.22 4.83 5.44
Jubilee 3.58 3.53 5.27
Northern 4.00 3.69 4.35
Piccadilly 4.75 5.05 4.76
Waterloo & City 1.49 1.47 2.33
NETWORK 6.04 5.82 6.62
Lower numbers represent better performance

Journey Time:

Schedule Excess Total
Bakerloo 28.92 3.72 32.63
Central 32.15 6.16 38.31
Victoria 24.10 6.66 30.76
District 31.20 2.67 33.87
Metropolitan 43.07 6.28 49.35
Circle & Hamm 31.47 4.83 36.30
Jubilee 26.50 3.53 30.03
Northern 29.86 3.69 33.55
Piccadilly 32.16 5.05 37.20
Waterloo & City 8.15 1.47 9.62
NETWORK 37.87 5.82 43.69
Lower numbers represent better performance

Mean Distance between failures (KM):

Period 8 Period 9 Average
Bakerloo 11,032 8,499 11,513
Central 11,970 10,265 10,549
Victoria 9,935 19,473 11,363
District 22,586 54,991 27,813
Metropolitan 6,018 4,619 10,045
Circle & Hamm 10,887 9,025 8,819
Jubilee 12,395 14,260 12,262
Northern 28,454 36,973 22,667
Piccadilly 24,947 61,976 36,189
Waterloo & City 5,780 5,621 10,279
NETWORK 13,439 14,236 13,930
Higher numbers represent better performance

So generally, better.
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Re: 13th February 2012

Post by Sam »

That's the thing with statistics, they can be twisted/altered to suit.

Oh and I'm sorry but some of us have been in this game a long time and the service is a lot worse that it was a few years ago....
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Re: 13th February 2012

Post by Steeevooo »

As I have to travel on the Jubilee line every day to and from work, I can confirm that the service in the peaks is as bad now as it has been for ages. As has been mentioned above, statistics can be manipulated in any way the user pleases, but I would certainly take the opinion of someone who uses the line every day over a set of statistics.

Oh, and well done for being able to copy and paste a whole load of statistics and not even be able to analyse them any more than 5 or 6 words each.
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Re: 13th February 2012

Post by geofftech »

hopeful traveller wrote:The actual TFL figures from...
Rhys, I'll stop you right there. No need to go past those five words.

TfL will tell you all day how things are improving, how things are better, and all day long about the great things that are happening. But there are two different realities in this world:

1. The one that they like to believe from the safety of 55 Broadway, behind meetings with badly put together Powerpoint presentations.

2. The real world! The one in which commuters travel on daily, and the one where people like us (tube challengers) know the system all too damn well, because we've been round it - ALL OF IT - more than most people have!

I'm not sure how many Full Network Challenges you've done ... Please correct me if i'm wrong, but i'll hazard a guess and say that I think that it's currently none.

So until ...

You've done a few full network challenges, and you've suffered the the pain of a Jubilee running two minutes late, so that as you arrive at Stanmore (late), the one you want to get shuts it does just as rush across the platform, thus putting you a train down, thus putting you two Northern Line trains down from Edgware, thus missing out on a Mill HIll East connection and then being fifteen minutes down ... THEN come back and tell us how good the tube is.

When you're 13 hours into a challenge, and you're on for a record time and your eastbound District like train crawls along between Upminster Bridge and Upminster for no obvious reason. then stops. then after an age he driver announced that he's waiting for a free platform at Upminster even though your pointman who's AT upminster can see a free platform, and your train arrives 5 minutes down on timetables, thus making you miss your C2C train, jubilee connection, Bakerloo train putting you 10 minutes down and ultimately 20 so that you don't break the record ... THEN come back and tell us how good the tube is.

When you hear that there is a "Signal failure at Rayners Lane" (why don't they just FCUKING FIX THE SIGNAL AT RAYNERS LANE ONCE AND FOR ALL) and things screw you over, when a Piccadilly Line train (with "Good Service" announced) just fails to turn up without any explanation meaning a 20 gap in service rather than 10, when you've missed a MHE train because it's left early by 90 seconds, when the Richmond branch is down even though Overground trains are running along it just fine thanks, and when you turn up at Chesham at 7am on a freezing cold morning with snow on the ground only to be greeted by a poor member of staff saying "No one's told him when the next/first train is", THEN by all means come on here and spout on like some TfL-monkey about how good the tube service is.

I could go on, and on, will all too many examples. I think you get the point. So until then, please believe those of us that have grafted hard and sweated hard and pounded the streets out there on knowing how the tube system really is, because we do. It is no better (and in my opinon worse) than it was 5-10 years ago.
Last edited by geofftech on 15 Feb 2012, 22:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 13th February 2012

Post by greatkingrat »

I think a tube challengers view of "good service" is different to the average passengers view of "good service". A train arriving at Stanmore 2 minutes late might muck up your route, but 99% of passengers will not notice or be bothered in the slightest. Remember that the working timetable is not intended to be used by the public, just because it says there is a 30 second connection in theory doesn't mean it will work in practice. The TfL statistics are more concerned with the big picture of the line as a whole rather than the exact timings of individual trains.

Also, I don't think the tube was ever as good as you seem to think. Just going through your early attempts you had problems every single time.

Tube 1 - signal failure at Gunnersbury, passenger alarm at South Harrow
Tube 2 - 13 min wait at Hainault, 16 min wait at Acton Town
Tube 3 - various long waits towards the end of the day
Tube 4 - 10 min delay at Golders Green, points failure at Kennington, ran to District line station that was closed
Tube 5 - 9 min wait for District, Eastern end of the Central screwed,
Tube 6 - points failure at East Finchley, 19 min wait at Woodford
Tube 7 - 25 min wait for MHE train, cancellation at Uxbridge, and you still broke the record!

The big difference is that when you first started, the record was a lot easier and you could afford a couple of delays and still have a chance at the record. Nowdays, every route is planned so exactly and the connections are so tight, that it just takes one minor delay of a few minutes and you can never get that time back.
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Re: 13th February 2012

Post by geofftech »

greatkingrat wrote:Also, I don't think the tube was ever as good as you seem to think. Just going through your early attempts you had problems every single time.

Tube 1 - signal failure at Gunnersbury, passenger alarm at South Harrow
Tube 2 - 13 min wait at Hainault, 16 min wait at Acton Town
Tube 3 - various long waits towards the end of the day
Tube 4 - 10 min delay at Golders Green, points failure at Kennington, ran to District line station that was closed
Tube 5 - 9 min wait for District, Eastern end of the Central screwed,
Tube 6 - points failure at East Finchley, 19 min wait at Woodford
Tube 7 - 25 min wait for MHE train, cancellation at Uxbridge, and you still broke the record!

The big difference is that when you first started, the record was a lot easier and you could afford a couple of delays and still have a chance at the record. Nowdays, every route is planned so exactly and the connections are so tight, that it just takes one minor delay of a few minutes and you can never get that time back.
Yup, i've taken all those into account in terms of what is a delay, and what isn't. I say that nowadays you can sitll have a problem and work around it, but there really have been more major issues, more severe delays than minor delays than what there ever used to be. Monday's attempt was the worst day in the history of all my attempts, which just about sums it up for me ... it's the year 2012, and I have my worst ever attempt. TheTube is worst than it used to be, and I'm sticking by that! Would still love to see others stats .. (there's a thread for it now.... go on, you know you want to).
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Re: 13th February 2012

Post by Steeevooo »

I'd love to contribute to your stats thread Geoff, but unless you actually keep a proper record of the attempts that you have done, then it's impossible to do! I know that I've now done 9 attempts, been successful 3 times (so there was evidently overall good service on at least 33% of my attempts), but really couldn't tell you the causes of the other non-GWR getting attempts - whether it was bad routing, human error or bad service. Gut feeling and day-to-day tubing to work knowledge tells me, as I mentioned earlier, that the service is no better now than it was 4 years ago.
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Re: 13th February 2012

Post by The Raven »

greatkingrat wrote:I think a tube challengers view of "good service" is different to the average passengers view of "good service". A train arriving at Stanmore 2 minutes late might muck up your route, but 99% of passengers will not notice or be bothered in the slightest. Remember that the working timetable is not intended to be used by the public, just because it says there is a 30 second connection in theory doesn't mean it will work in practice. The TfL statistics are more concerned with the big picture of the line as a whole rather than the exact timings of individual trains.

The big difference is that when you first started, the record was a lot easier and you could afford a couple of delays and still have a chance at the record. Nowdays, every route is planned so exactly and the connections are so tight, that it just takes one minor delay of a few minutes and you can never get that time back.
I have to agree with greatkingrat, the tube is not "designed" for tubechallenges. We are using transport in a way it was never designed for! Though don't think I'm leaping to the defence of TfL, even my limited experience I seen tube trains do some daft things! Besides you need that ONE perfect day, and your golden!
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Re: 13th February 2012

Post by Cheshire Cat »

It will be interesting to see whether TfL manage to operate a good service during Mrs Windsor's celebrations and the Olympics and, if they do, whether it continues thereafter. If so (and it is a BIG if), then we might be able to believe the propaganda. But somehow, I doubt it.
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Re: 13th February 2012

Post by tubeguru »

No doubt we will all be told how great the Tube is after the Olympics. Mind you, I can only see chaos myself ...
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Re: 13th February 2012

Post by geofftech »

...
Last edited by geofftech on 08 May 2019, 09:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 13th February 2012

Post by palkanetoijala31 »

geofftech wrote:So ... there seems to be a notion here of "it's no better than it was...", which (i'll say again) is bizarre considering how much time out they have (all those weekends) to get it going, and the big "We've got a plan" PR campaign - when really, at the very least - it's no better.

just today I was at West Brompton this morning on the north/eastbound platform, and there was a tourist asking the CSA which train to get to go to South Kensington. He looked up at the DMI and said "the one about to pull in now", at it was showing a City/Victoria train. At which point a Wimbleware pulled in, and I had to tell the lady that this was not the train she wanted, but to wait for the next one. Please TfL, please .. take some of your wasted PR money, and get the 'Next train' indicators to actually always work. Even if you don't run trains, or run them to time, get the information to the customers correct, it's appalling. And I can think of at least four others stations (all in my local area) where the 'Next train..' is often wrong. *Sigh*

Steveoo - no stats AT ALL? Who has all your logbooks with all your times written down!!? :-) At a guestimate though, what %age would you say it fails. 66%? Or less ...
i have at least 4 of his attempts written down but the successfull ones Surely if u were at West brompton u would have told the lady just for one stop at least to earls court then she could have picked up a richmond or ealing broadway starter or even a pic to s ken
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Re: 13th February 2012

Post by Steeevooo »

geofftech wrote:Steveoo - no stats AT ALL? Who has all your logbooks with all your times written down!!? :-) At a guestimate though, what %age would you say it fails. 66%? Or less ...
I don't have any definitive stats, no - I'm not always the logger on my attempts, and there has been at least one attempt where it went so badly that I ripped out the logbook pages and threw them away! That said, if I could be bothered I'm sure I could locate a couple of my books. At a guess from what little I can actually remember of my failed attempts, 2 or 3 would have failed because of a complete system failure and the rest probably due to the scenario you previously mentioned where one or two isolated incidents have cost a connection which has then snowballed into something bigger.
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