Shoreditch closes before T4 reopens!?

[dr_chris]

We did Hatton Cross-Feltham-Richmond on Tube Relief, and the last couple of times we've been going the other way - times for latest attempt currently in Tooting, but it wasn't too slow from what I remember (although we just missed the previous train from Richmond so I had time to grab a Maccy D's... yummy!)

[Richard]

Has anyone done the Heathrow - Feltham (by bus) - Richmond (by rail) journey? If so, how long does it take? I tried using a bus all the way from Richmond to Hatton Cross, but it takes at least 35 minutes.[/quote]

Heathrow to Feltham is a surprisingly long journey on the bus - I did it twice last month and it was around 15-20 minutes (and this wasn't during peak times).

Trains from Feltham to Richmond are quite regular and take ten minutes, but it's luck of the draw as to how swift your connection will be.

[Root]

Perhaps Richmond - Hounslow Bus Station (15 minutes) is a better bet?

[barrykas]

Has anyone done the Heathrow - Feltham (by bus) - Richmond (by rail) journey? If so, how long does it take? I tried using a bus all the way from Richmond to Hatton Cross, but it takes at least 35 minutes.

We did Heathrow Central - Feltham - Richmond for Tube Relief, which took an age, thanks to heavy traffic on the A4 and around a 15 minute wait at Feltham.

Next time, I think we'll pick the 285 up at Hatton Cross instead, as that should be quicker.

Cheers,

Barry

[joy54]

It seems that Shoreditch will recieve a Rail Replacement Bus service run with 4 single deck vehicles. This has been tendered by TFL and has been awarded to Travel London.

This may mean that 2 Rail Replacement Buses will be needed to do the record and the same as T4 will happen with Geoff & Neil's time standing.

[jonny]

surely it will no longer be part of the underground, and therefore no longer required for the record?

[Root]

It does seem a rather strange decision, considering it is never going to be an Underground station again. Shall we use a tour bus to visit Aldwych station while we're at it?

Guiness are eventually going to have to recognise that the configuration is changing permanently, and do something about it. They wouldn't say that we have to use the East London Line even when it becomes National Rail... would they?

[moley]

Shoreditch will no longer be required for the record from when it closes - why? - because it will no longer rejoin the network.

It will be closed permanently.

T4 is a temporary closure hence why you must visit it.

[TheFatBuoy]

The Bakerloo will not run to Euston - that's not in the plans.

Once TfL Rail take over the DC Silverlink routes within London, the Bakerloo line is extended to Watford Junction (using cascaded Victoria line stock), TFL will run the following service.

Clapham Junction - Willesden Junction - Stratford (2tph)
Clapham Junction - Willesden Junction - Barking (2tph)
Richmond - Willesden Junction - Stratford (4tph)
Queens Park - Killburn High Road - South Hampstead - Camden Road (2tph) - Note that the South Hampstead to Camden Road freight line will be put into Passenger use.

One thing - what does DC in DC Silverlink stand for?

Another thing - am I right in thinking you're saying there are through trains from Clapham Junction through to both Barking and Stratford? Are they building new junctions/curves and such like then, because my London Connections map (LC_Jan_x06.pdf, downloadable from somewhere) clearly implies that trains from CJ to WJ terminate at WJ, and that a change at Gospel Oak would be neccessary to get to Barking.

[tubeguru]

One thing - what does DC in DC Silverlink stand for?

Dreadfully Crappy.

[tubeguru]

Another thing - am I right in thinking you're saying there are through trains from Clapham Junction through to both Barking and Stratford? Are they building new junctions/curves and such like then, because my London Connections map (LC_Jan_x06.pdf, downloadable from somewhere) clearly implies that trains from CJ to WJ terminate at WJ, and that a change at Gospel Oak would be neccessary to get to Barking.

There are no through trains from Clapham to Stratford at the moment. Currently, trains from Clapham Junction arrive at Willesden Junction High Level and then go to the Kensal Green reversing siding, before coming back out to Willesden Junction for the return trip to Clapham Junction.

The new service will see the trains take the following route from CJ to Stratford:

CJ -> Willesden Junction -> Kensal Green Junction -> Gospel Oak -> Camden West Junction -> Camden Road -> Camden East Junction -> Passenger lines to Canonbury ("fast" freight lines run parallel) -> Dalston Junction -> Hackney Wick -> Channelsea Junctions -> Stratford High Level.

At Gospel Oak the line diverges. The NLL continues along the route outlined above, whilst the GOBLIN goes off to the left, through Upper Holloway, past the Junction Road junction (the one that comes up from the ground), along to the South Tottenham junction and then on to Barking.

Trains going from CJ to Barking would miss Gospel Oak station if they went via the GOBLIN route, because the platforms at GO are only on the NLL line tracks. The GOBLIN platform is a terminus platform not accessible to through trains. Also, the GOBLIN from Gospel Oak junction to Forest Gate junction is not electrified, so there's no way the CJ to Barking trains are going that way anyway!

Therefore, they will be routed to Barking via the NLL from Gospel Oak, and not the GOBLIN, but this would require the trains to call at Stratford High Level station instead of the Low Level station as they do presently. This is because the only destination after Stratford LL is North Woolwich: trains cannot branch off after Stratford LL to get to Barking.

After Stratford High Level, the trains would run to the Forest Gate junction, where they would branch off right through Woodgrange Park and on to Barking. The line to Barking from Forest Gate junction is AC power, so the trains should have no problem getting there.

If you visit the SimSig forum, you can get a copy of the map of the lines covered by this area:

http://www.simsig.co.uk/discus/messages ... 1140441750

Go down to the 6th post (by Roscalen) and it's in the zip file NLL_v2.zip.

You can also see a graphical representation of the entire area if you go to the following page and click on the smaller images:

http://www.simsig.co.uk/html/north_london.html

I've been playing this simulation for a while now and it is quite challenging. Give it a go yourself!

[tubeguru]

Just to add to that, don't forget that maps designed for passenger use don't show all the freight lines and junctions. To an outsider, the NLL looks like a shitty little line going through places in the middle of nowhere, whereas in reality, it shares its route with the major arterial freight routes around north London.

[tangy]

May I add that there are now some through trains from CJ to Stratford, during the peak periods, which are inserted in between the usual every 15 minute NLL Mainline frequency to give an increased frequency during peak hours.

DC stands for Direct Current as the Bakerloo/Silverlink all stoppers run using the 3rd/4th rail system (as opposed to the adjecent WCML which is AC OHLE electrified.)

The current GOBLIN service runs between Gospel Oak- Barking only using 3 class 150 Sprinter DMUs, extending this route to CJ will require some more Sprinters, which are not readily available at the moment!

The only flaw with the new plans is that there will be no local stopping service to Euston south of H&W, as the Euston 313s will be diverted at South Hampstead to Camden Road. Perhaps some 321s can stop at Queens Park (at the fast platforms) to still allow access to Euston from places like Willesden and Wembley.