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tubeguru wrote:The reason I was confident in my initial mention of Edgware Road terminators is that I live on the H&C line and I have found myself on trains that have tipped us out at Edgware Road with no warning. Problems on the Circle line can easily result in your pink train becoming a yellow one at ER.

If that was the case then u still have other options maybe not the 1 u want but i think thats a bit of tough luck for example if it was drawn out and everybody but myself went east and the bakerloo went down nearly straight afterwards u accuse me of cheating.

palkanetoijala31 wrote:I would if it came out risk it going west just to be different and hope the bakerloo went down just afterwards

I'd laugh if Paddington (Hammersmith & City) will be drawn out of the hat, and everybody decides to go West! I'm looking at the map and thinking that a quick run between Royal Oak and Warwick Avenue could work!

mps247 wrote:

palkanetoijala31 wrote:I would if it came out risk it going west just to be different and hope the bakerloo went down just afterwards

I'd laugh if Paddington (Hammersmith & City) will be drawn out of the hat, and everybody decides to go West! I'm looking at the map and thinking that a quick run between Royal Oak and Warwick Avenue could work!

You stole my idea

palkanetoijala31 wrote:

mps247 wrote:

palkanetoijala31 wrote:I would if it came out risk it going west just to be different and hope the bakerloo went down just afterwards

I'd laugh if Paddington (Hammersmith & City) will be drawn out of the hat, and everybody decides to go West! I'm looking at the map and thinking that a quick run between Royal Oak and Warwick Avenue could work!

You stole my idea

Of course! Standing on the shoulders of giants! Wasn't that what Newton said?

I'm now thinking about an Aldgate East start, going East to Whitechapel and running to Bethnal Green. There are so many possiblities!

Down the pub?

Im going there after gps

Right whatever station comes out of the hat (i will ask suggestions from people there on the day about a suitable meeting up place at that station)If people are running late they have until 12.50pm to contact somebody where it is and arrive.If by any reason u r later than this then take the 1st available train after 1pm and time urself according to the rules but there really shouldnt be any excuse for being late.

palkanetoijala31 wrote:Right whatever station comes out of the hat (i will ask suggestions from people there on the day about a suitable meeting up place at that station)If people are running late they have until 12.50pm to contact somebody where it is and arrive.If by any reason u r later than this then take the 1st available train after 1pm and time urself according to the rules but there really shouldnt be any excuse for being late.

I think if anyone starts late there should be some sort of penalty, as you say there is no excuse. Last year because of some confusion at the start different teams departed on different WB PIC trains, had our team departed in the second group we would have had a sub-three hour time and won last years event. Therefore I say it's essential that everyone departs on the first train AFTER 1PM (with all the usual rules). If anyone is late they should get a 10min penalty or straightforward DQ. Otherwise it could leave you wideopen to someone like W*v*f**m claming a dodgy time.

I think a disqualification would be a little harsh. A 10 minute penalty seems fair, as you can still take part. You would have no chance of winning, but you can try for a mid-table finish.

Yes, there are a lot of excuses for being late that are complete rubbish, but there are some reasons as to why somebody might end up being late for reasons well out of their control. I don't think they should be penalised by not allowing them to take part.

Soup Dragon wrote:

palkanetoijala31 wrote:Right whatever station comes out of the hat (i will ask suggestions from people there on the day about a suitable meeting up place at that station)If people are running late they have until 12.50pm to contact somebody where it is and arrive.If by any reason u r later than this then take the 1st available train after 1pm and time urself according to the rules but there really shouldnt be any excuse for being late.

I think if anyone starts late there should be some sort of penalty, as you say there is no excuse. Last year because of some confusion at the start different teams departed on different WB PIC trains, had our team departed in the second group we would have had a sub-three hour time and won last years event. Therefore I say it's essential that everyone departs on the first train AFTER 1PM (with all the usual rules). If anyone is late they should get a 10min penalty or straightforward DQ. Otherwise it could leave you wideopen to someone like W*v*f**m claming a dodgy time.

yes they should be no reason for lateness i doubt it come into effect if u r late let say for arguments 1.15pm then u have to add 15 mins on to ur finishing time as a penalty for being late.(Unless i think really exceptional circumstances)Anybody after that really wouldnt have a hope of making that much time up i think to win.(I suppose it means they can still go for Starkeys record though)

palkanetoijala31 wrote:yes they should be no reason for lateness i doubt it come into effect if u r late let say for arguments 1.15pm then u have to add 15 mins on to ur finishing time as a penalty for being late.(Unless i think really exceptional circumstances)Anybody after that really wouldnt have a hope of making that much time up i think to win.(I suppose it means they can still go for Starkeys record though)

That sounds fair. Add on the time you are late by to your final time.

Dr Who also got the record with me! Also, what if the first train doesn't come until 1:10pm? Then rocking up at 1:15pm would only make you five minutes late.

Anyway, I don't see how starting early OR late can be a benefit OR a hindrance! Statistically, assuming the usual randomish patterns of trains, it makes no difference when you start. So how is it unfair?!

Starkey7 wrote:So how is it unfair?!

Soup Dragon wrote:Last year because of some confusion at the start different teams departed on different WB PIC trains, had our team departed in the second group we would have had a sub-three hour time and won last years event.

I agree with Starkey. There is always an element of luck involved. As I said earlier, things could have gone either way. If somebody started late, they may have missed their connection, thus preventing them from getting a good time. It just so happens that things didn't work out this way, but Starkey is correct in that the random nature of trains means that things will level out over an infinite time frame.

It's just that we don't have an infinite time frame, so I can see the argument for penalising somebody who is late. However, even though this is competitive, it is all meant to be a bit of fun too. Therefore, I think that disqualification is too hard a punishment. It's like saying, "Well, thanks for showing up, but you are late so your time won't count. You might as well go home. See you next year." That seems a little harsh, especially if somebody has travelled from quite far to take part.

scrxisi wrote:Andi, you realise you've made it harder to run now? By legislating for starting late you've made it legal (albeit with penalty), so now on the day you'll (maybe) have to start working out penalty times and everything, whereas before that wasn't a worry.

You looking for a huge administrative nightmare or something?

Surely there is enough trust to say that if we are late we add the penalty on ourselves and give Andi the final time. If I was late, I would certainly not like a hollow victory by giving Andi a time without the penalty. There is no GWR to break, so there really is no point in lying.

Anyway, even if you do want to regulate it, there is very little work involved. Everybody must register before they start. An organiser will wait at the starting station for any latecomers, take a note of their starting time and tell them what their penalty is. There will not be so many teams for this to be an issue. In the age of the mobile phone, communication between an organiser and any latecomers should be pretty easy.

scrxisi wrote:I see your point but just think that if someone turned up half an hour late and did a carbon copy of my route and beat me by ten minutes I'd be a little peeved. If they were to beat me by out-running me on changes that's fair enough, but any other way is an unlevel playing field. It's a bumpy one at the best of times, but we should try an ensure evryone has the same bumps (to modify a phrase)...

I can see what you are saying. If everybody starts at the same time, the playing field is a little more level. If we impose a penalty, you will end up beating the latecomer by 20 minutes, so I think the penalty is the way to go.

How do you want to set it up Andi? Do you want to leave it up to trust or do you want to regulate it? There are a number of ways to regulate it apart from the one I mentioned - if you can't get anybody to wait at the starting station for any newcomers, what about a picture message of the latecomer on a platform at the starting station with the caption, "I have arrived!"? You will have a timestamp from the message, so you can assign the penalty using that. I will try to think of some other ideas if you wish.