ZONE 1 CHALLENGE CUP 2009 OFFICIAL RULES

All you need to know and discuss about the 2009 Zone 1 Challenge.
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joy54
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Re: ZONE 1 CHALLENGE CUP 2009 OFFICIAL RULES

Post by joy54 »

palkanetoijala31 wrote:If u put it on youtube i watch it and make my mind up about it and edit the rules accordingly.I was trying to help any rookies that possibly dont know the horrible changes at Bank (ie if u were doing it the first time and the train announcement says dont change here u would follow their advice) I dont understand the hoohah about the inclusion of a station that probably wont get picked anyway.
So the issue now isn't that the tunnel isn't open but that the interchange is horrible? I would argue that the change is pretty easy compared to others on the network, just walk up the stairs at the end of the Northern Line platform, straight on and then up the stairs. Compared to changes at Kings Cross from the Northern Line where two flights of stairs have to be climbed and then other set to go down to reach the Circle Line platforms it is relatively simple, if we are to exclude all stations where walking along corridors and upstairs will be an issue can I nominate the exclusion of Kings Cross St Pancras, Moorgate, Liverpool Street and pretty much every other interchange between two different lines.

Also I don't think it's that slim an option of it being picked. Obviosuly worst case will be 1/64 but more likely 1/20 if picked.
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Re: ZONE 1 CHALLENGE CUP 2009 OFFICIAL RULES

Post by palkanetoijala31 »

joy54 wrote:
palkanetoijala31 wrote:If u put it on youtube i watch it and make my mind up about it and edit the rules accordingly.I was trying to help any rookies that possibly dont know the horrible changes at Bank (ie if u were doing it the first time and the train announcement says dont change here u would follow their advice) I dont understand the hoohah about the inclusion of a station that probably wont get picked anyway.
So the issue now isn't that the tunnel isn't open but that the interchange is horrible? I would argue that the change is pretty easy compared to others on the network, just walk up the stairs at the end of the Northern Line platform, straight on and then up the stairs. Compared to changes at Kings Cross from the Northern Line where two flights of stairs have to be climbed and then other set to go down to reach the Circle Line platforms it is relatively simple, if we are to exclude all stations where walking along corridors and upstairs will be an issue can I nominate the exclusion of Kings Cross St Pancras, Moorgate, Liverpool Street and pretty much every other interchange between two different lines.

Also I don't think it's that slim an option of it being picked. Obviosuly worst case will be 1/64 but more likely 1/20 if picked.
Odds would be 1 in 58 if i included no shorter.
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joy54
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Re: ZONE 1 CHALLENGE CUP 2009 OFFICIAL RULES

Post by joy54 »

palkanetoijala31 wrote: Odds would be 1 in 58 if i included no shorter.
Ok, I wasn't sure if you were going to allow us to nominate starting stations like last time or not. But still doesn't address the other issue!
Last edited by joy54 on 25 Jan 2009, 15:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ZONE 1 CHALLENGE CUP 2009 OFFICIAL RULES

Post by palkanetoijala31 »

After Watching Matt,s Video (thank you) I will include Bank as a possible starting station so makes a 58 starting station draw.And this year we going to have a slight variation as all the station names will be in individual empty kinder eggs capsules.

THERE WILL BE NO MORE DISCUSSION ON THE SUBJECT
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Re: ZONE 1 CHALLENGE CUP 2009 OFFICIAL RULES

Post by joy54 »

palkanetoijala31 wrote:After Watching Matt,s Video (thank you) I will include Bank as a possible starting station so makes a 58 starting station draw.And this year we going to have a slight variation as all the station names will be in individual empty kinder eggs capsules.

THERE WILL BE NO MORE DISCUSSION ON THE SUBJECT
:D
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Re: ZONE 1 CHALLENGE CUP 2009 OFFICIAL RULES

Post by tubeguru »

palkanetoijala31 wrote:THERE WILL BE NO MORE DISCUSSION ON THE SUBJECT
I'm sorry, I can't allow you to tell people that they can't discuss the rules of the Zone 1 2009 challenge on this forum, even if you are in charge of making the rules.

While I agree that you should feel under no obligation to change the rules because people might argue over one small point, people are still free to discuss the merits of otherwise of your decision. I don't see any problem with the issues raised over the rules so far - everyone raised their points in a calm manner. I was hoping they might have been addressed in a similar one.

Discussion may continue, so long as we all play nicely. :)

Edit: Note - "discussion" is different to "moaning about a rule we don't like".
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Re: ZONE 1 CHALLENGE CUP 2009 OFFICIAL RULES

Post by Starkey7 »

Oh I thought that he meant that there was to be no more Kinder egg discussion.
:oops:
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Re: ZONE 1 CHALLENGE CUP 2009 OFFICIAL RULES

Post by tubeguru »

Good point, but there's nothing wrong with Kinder Egg capsules is there? :)
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Re: ZONE 1 CHALLENGE CUP 2009 OFFICIAL RULES

Post by palkanetoijala31 »

Point taken Tubeguru Moaning would have been a better word.
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Re: ZONE 1 CHALLENGE CUP 2009 OFFICIAL RULES

Post by tubeguru »

Excellent - let the discussion continue!

I promise I won't moan about the rules - you made them so that's what's going to happen on the day.
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Re: ZONE 1 CHALLENGE CUP 2009 OFFICIAL RULES

Post by mps247 »

Hi! I'm a little new around here, and am quite interested in entering the zone 1 challenge. Not sure if I'll be around on the day, but of course, I can PM Andi if I decide to come.

I have a question though, concerning this rule:
palkanetoijala31 wrote:ZONE 1 CHALLENGE CUP 2009 OFFICIAL RULES

7) When the organisers set off the teams at 1pm GMT precisely each must depart from the start station by LU train. They can freely select the first train for their intended first interchange. They MAY NOT wait for a second train to the same station following the same route. (See the comment section for more details).



7a) The interpretation for a Baker Street Start is that a team wishing to go east along the Circle, must try to catch the first train, either a Met train or a Circle/H&C train, even though these depart from different platforms.
7b) The interpretation for a High Street Kensington start is that a team wishing to go to Earl´s Court, must try to catch the first train regardless of whether this is a Kensington (Olympia) train or a Wimbledon train, even though these depart from different platforms.
7c) This also means e.g. at a Moorgate start, a team may decide to wait for an east bound H&C (for Aldgate East), a clockwise Circle for travel beyond Aldgate or any SSL train for Liverpool Street. However a team MUST NOT wait for the correct sequence (like H&C-Met-Circle and expect to make the Aldgate run to catch that Circle train...). It's allowed to wait for a Nor NB for King's Cross even though there may be an earlier SSL for King's Cross. Also, any type of restarts, for whatever reasons, are not allowed.
7d) Blackfriars is closed u must pass through this station at some point.
I don't understand the reason behind this rule. It seems like it makes good sense to wait for a Hammersmith & City-Metropolitan-Circle (or just Hammersmith & City-Circle if you are feeling fast enough!) connection.

Apart from that, what if the starting station is Paddington (Hammersmith & City)? All competitors must board the same train. Although routes may be different, but most people will probably get out at the same stop, and we will probably end up slowing each other down. If I was to gamble and wait for the next service, I would probably be a little quicker.

Of course, I've never done it before, so I don't know if either of the above comments apply. They were just the two thoughts that occurred to me when I read your rules.
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Re: ZONE 1 CHALLENGE CUP 2009 OFFICIAL RULES

Post by tubeguru »

And I'm sure Andi will have fun explaining it to you. ;)
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Re: ZONE 1 CHALLENGE CUP 2009 OFFICIAL RULES

Post by palkanetoijala31 »

Thanx :)
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Re: ZONE 1 CHALLENGE CUP 2009 OFFICIAL RULES

Post by mps247 »

scrxisi wrote:I'd be very very surprised if every team did the same first interchange from a Paddington H&C* start, just to address something that wasn't really your main point :)


*or for that matter any start!
Yes, that is true! Perhaps I should rephrase it. I'm not sure how secretative people are with their routes, but I am guessing that everybody's first interchange will probably be well known just from talking to people. What if you find out that a lot of people are changing where you are intending to ermmm... change (that's bad English - I couldn't think of another word for "change", sorry), and decide that it may be better to wait for the next train?

For my main point though, it seems like it could be strategic decision not to take the first train. The strategy may back-fire, but it could pay-off. I was just wondering why the rule was there, as it seems to prevent somebody from using this strategy.
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Re: ZONE 1 CHALLENGE CUP 2009 OFFICIAL RULES

Post by tubeguru »

This is how I see it. Let's take Paddington as our starting station example.

You're on the Hammersmith and City line platform eastbound and the first train is only going as far as Edgware Road, but you want King's Cross. So you wait for the next train which you hope will be going at least that far. But if you miss the FIRST train, you MUST take the second one regardless of its destination. So if you have two Edgware Road trains in a row you're going to be changing at Edgware Road whether you like it or not.
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