Tumbleweed - The Rules and Discussion

[tubeguru]

Go on then, because I sure as hell can't be arsed.

[mullardo]

Go on then, because I sure as hell can't be arsed.

I didn't meen any offense. It's just confuising for new players. Maybe I need a "Tumbleweed for Dummies"

[Starkey7]

Point 1 clearly states that for every 5 mins the game is idle 5 weed is available...

Yes, and point 4 clearly states that one may claim fewer points than one deserves, if one wants,

I still don't understand how claiming non-multiple-of-five points is against the spirit of the game. It may sound like I'm making a fuss over nothing, but I'm just concerned that sensible people who introduce fun games are still caught in the trap of adding various rules that add nothing to the game, and simply increase the number of rules. Therefore my point is a more general one than simply wanting to claim four bells and so on.

[tubeguru]

Yes, and point 4 clearly states that one may claim fewer points than one deserves, if one wants,

Yes, but if you do that, it STILL has to be a multiple of five.

Therefore my point is a more general one than simply wanting to claim four bells and so on.

Four bells is a perfectly valid claim, so long as four hours of time have passed ...

[tubeguru]

Go on then, because I sure as hell can't be arsed.

I didn't meen any offense. It's just confuising for new players. Maybe I need a "Tumbleweed for Dummies"

As the rules seem to be an obsession for some people, I may consider simplifying them at some point in the future. However, as most of the people who have played so far seem to have got the hang of it, I don't see any real urgency.

Only Mr Stark has claimed for odd numbers of weed, probably to point out that the rules aren't "clear" enough. But in order to clarify the "multiple of five" thing, I have to add MORE words to the rules! One can't win ...

[Sam]

I thought it was quite clear that it had to be multiples of 5 and if you chose to opt for fewer points then it still had to be in multiples of 5, so if 12 minutes had passed, you could opt for 10 weed or 5 weed...

[tubeguru]

I thought it was quite clear that it had to be multiples of 5 and if you chose to opt for fewer points then it still had to be in multiples of 5, so if 12 minutes had passed, you could opt for 10 weed or 5 weed...

Correct.

[Starkey7]

It was not at all clear that "4 weed" was invalid, because this "multiple of five" stipulation was not in the original rules. It was only added as a "2a" rule sometime later. Therefore I reckon that my original claim of "4 weed" was valid. If Neil forgot to put it in the rules, then that's his fault! You can't disallow a claim due to an as-yet-unwritten rule.

If Neil really wants to change the game halfway through with a new rule, especially one that is unnecessary, then ... well, I'm surprised at him, but I suppose that it's his game. Thing is, Neil, will there be any more as-yet-unwritten rules that you'll add in later? Should we know about them now?

[tubeguru]

It was not at all clear that "4 weed" was invalid, because this "multiple of five" stipulation was not in the original rules. It was only added as a "2a" rule sometime later. Therefore I reckon that my original claim of "4 weed" was valid. If Neil forgot to put it in the rules, then that's his fault! You can't disallow a claim due to an as-yet-unwritten rule.

Rule 2a, which is a clarification was not in the original rules, was added later - that is correct. However, the INTENTION of the original rules was that weed could only be claimed in multiples of five. Everyone else managed to grasp this concept very quickly. I am NOT going to retrospectively allow claims of non-multiples of five because the rules did not explicitly state that claims for weeds can only be in multiples of five.

If Neil really wants to change the game halfway through with a new rule, especially one that is unnecessary, then ... well, I'm surprised at him, but I suppose that it's his game.

You make me sound like a dictator here. I added rule 2a because the issue of claims of multiples of five came up. So to ensure that no one reading the rules in the future (and for the record), I added this extra rule. Is this really an issue that needs further discussion?

Thing is, Neil, will there be any more as-yet-unwritten rules that you'll add in later? Should we know about them now?

Rule 2a was a CLARIFICATION, hence the "a" after the 2 - it was not a completely new rule, as it simply provided clarification to the first rule. I don't intend to add more rules later, as I am acutely aware that people are worried that the rules are too "complex" as they are.

So, tomorrow I am going to re-write the rules so they are "simpler". THE GAME WILL REMAIN THE SAME - NO SCORES WILL BE CHANGED.

[tubeguru]

I hasten to add, that to put this in perspective, if I were to allow your two claims of "4 weed", you would now have eight points. Today, Mullardo has so far scored 615.

[Root]

Blimey.

[tubeguru]

Following on from scrxisi's observation that forum permissions had reverted to allowing people to edit their posts (due to me moving the threads), I have now changed the settings for registered users so they may not edit OR delete their own posts. This should now eliminate cheating via that avenue.

Feel free to try to edit any of your own posts in either this thread or the game thread to test it out.

[tubeguru]

OK, as we've had some lovely arguments over the rules and their complexity, I have re-written them and made a few SMALL changes. Therefore, without further ado I present you with the "new" rules:

1. Claiming points

For every five minutes that the game thread is idle, a player may claim a five-point weed.

For every hour that the game thread is idle, 75 points are available in the form of a bell.

EXAMPLES:
If the game starts at 09.00, at 09.32 Player A can claim a 30 point weed. Then, 25 minutes later at 09.57am, player B can claim a 25 point weed.
If the game starts at 09.00, at 10.00 Player A can claim 1 bell (75 points).

Weeds can only be claimed in MULTIPLES OF FIVE. Multiples of all other numbers of weeds (except numbers which themselves are multiples of five) are invalid. Bells can be claimed in any number, so long as one hour of time has passed for each bell claimed.

To claim points, a post must be made to the game thread in this format:

For weed claims: "x point weed", "x weed", "x points";
For bell claims: "x bells".

x must be a positive integer, and cannot be subsituted as an algebraic expression or other mathematical construct. You may write the number claimed in either numerical or word format.

For clarity, when claiming for weed, the number you claim for is the same as the number of minutes that have passed in the game file, so 35 minutes equals "35 weed".

Note: there is nothing to stop a player from claiming FEWER points than are available based on the amount of time that has passed in the thread - there is no penalty for such a claim, but the smaller claim MUST BE A MULTIPLE OF FIVE if claiming for weed.

2. Invalid claims

If the number of points claimed is not a positive integer, (and/or in the case of weed is NOT a multiple of five) then the claim is invalid and the player will lose the number of points claimed.

If a player claims for MORE points than are available, they lose ALL of the points claimed.

No more than one claim for points in a row can be made by the same player. If the same player makes two or more consecutive claims for points, only the first claim will be valid (assuming it conforms to rule 3), and the points claimed in the successive claims will be deducted from the player's score. The "game clock" will not be reset (see below).

Combination claims consisting of bells and weeds are invalid. If such claims are made, the player will gain the first portion of the claim, and lose the second portion (assuming the first portion itself is a valid claim - if both are invalid then the player loses both sets of points). For example: a claim of "1 bell and 30 weed" gains 75 and loses 30 points, for a net score of 45 points.

Note: In the event of a multiple claim, if the FIRST part of the claim is invalid, the clock WILL BE RESET from the time of the claim. See rule 7.

3. Spoilers

Spoilers are posts made to the game thread that do not explicitly specify a claim for points. Spoilers "reset the clock", so if a spoiler was made at 09.00, the clock would be reset from 09.00, and the next available claim would be at 09.05 for a five-point weed.

If a player makes two or more spoiler posts in a row, then only the first spoiler will reset the clock. All consecutive spoilers by that player will be ignored and have no effect on the clock.

Invalid points claims are NOT counted as spoilers. Typos made when claiming for weeds or bells are counted as spoilers, so "40 weef", or "2 bellsd" are SPOILERS, and not invalid claims. Note that a "typo" refers to the mis-spelling of the non-numeric part of a claim. If a player accidentally types "30 weed" instead of "20 weed" when only 20 weed are available then it will be counted as an invalid claim.

A player may NOT post a spoiler and then make a subsequent claim for points without another player having posted something between the two. The claim will be invalid, and the points claimed will be deducted. The "game clock" will run from the time of the spoiler post.

4. Multiple claims at the same time.

If two or more claims are made at the same time (that is, they have the same timestamp on them), the first valid claim will get the points claimed. The remaining claims will simply be ignored and the clock will be reset as usual. If the first claim in post order is invalid, then that player will have points deducted, and the next valid claim in post order will get the points, and so on.

5. Consecutive posts in the game thread by the same player

Players making consecutive posts in the game thread (with no other player posting in between) will be dealt with depending on the actions they have taken:

- Two or more successive claims for points (see rule 2)
- Two or more successive spoilers (see rule 3)
- A claim for points followed by one or more spoilers:

If the points claim is valid, the points are scored. The spoiler(s) will be ignored and the "game clock" will run from time of the points claim.
If the points claim is invalid, both the invalid claim and the spoiler(s) are ignored and the "game clock" will run from the time of the last post for a valid claim for points, or a spoiler, by another player.

- A spoiler followed by a claim for points:

The points claim is invalid, and the points will be deducted. The "game clock" will be reset to the time of the spoiler.

6. Misuse of spoilers

It is accepted that there may be game tactics that involve the use of occasional intentional invalid claims or spoilers, which are allowed. However, where it is felt that such posts are "spam" (such as a number of posts made in quick succession, or a person deliberately trying to ruin the thread by arguing or being generally annoying), such posts may be removed and the user banned from posting in the game thread.

7. The "game clock" (for clarification):

The "game clock" will be reset:

When a player makes a valid claim for points;
When a player make a multiple claim for points and the FIRST portion of the claim is valid;
When a player posts a spoiler.

The "game clock" will NOT be reset:

When a player makes an invalid claim for points;
When a player make a multiple claim for points and the ENTIRE claim in invalid;
When a player makes two successive posts to the game thread (be they claims for points or spoilers or a combination of the two) with no other player posting something in between them. See rule 5.

==========================================

These rules are NOT in effect yet, because I'd like a few people to read through them to see if they are now a little clearer. I'm not going to entertain any suggestions in changes to the rules of gameplay, but if anyone sees anything that is contradictory, or which could be re-worded then let me know.

The SMALL changes to the rules are:

- Claims for weeds that are NOT claimed in multiples of five - the number of points deducted is not rounded up to the nearest five.
- Typos are counted as spoilers and NOT invalid claims.
- Players may not claim for points and then post a spoiler with no other posts in between. I don't think we've had this come up in gameplay yet, but I would have been happy to allow a player to do this. The new "rule 5" should now clear up what happens with the four possibilities when it comes to successive posts.

All moan ...... NOW!

[tubeguru]

By the way, I would like to implement these new rules from this week onwards, which means that they would come into effect from 00.01 TODAY (Monday the 27th of June).

So if anyone has anything that they really need to moan about, I suggest you do it today, so as not to delay the scoring.

[Root]

You say that typos will not result in an invalid claim, but what if the typo is a "3" instead of a "2" in the claim "30 weed", as I made this weekend by mistake? Obviously I can't prove it was a typo and not just a mistake, but perhaps it should be clarified that numerical typos can result in invalid claims. Or can they?