tubechallenge.com

PM has got a point - verifying the non-275 challenges is easy (easier?), whereas 275's are actually about world records, so thorough checks must be done.

Unless we have access to all WTT's and other info that is not easily obtainable, we can only take it on trust.

Then again, as a non-official organisation, would it be all that important as it is with Guinness?

I would like to comment on a couple of items.

Firstly - whilst I have no intention of carrying out any world record attempts within the next six years at least, the fact remains that the tube challenge is a useful tool for raising money for charity as an expedition that is regarded even by those who have no idea of the complexities involved as very strenuous and demanding - as such I would consider carrying out an All 275 under these circumstances. Therefore, in the eyes of the community - would carrying out charity runs without any intention of breaking records exclude that person from any involvement with a governing body?

With regards to active challengers having involvement in the running of such a body - I would feel that they would have a part to play in an advisory capacity. The flexible and variant nature of the activity, particularly considering variations to the system, is one reason why I feel active challengers should be consulted. As PM said, the new organisation would need some sort of input to check that trains run like they are being told by claimants of the world record. If the committee is comprised of ex-challengers, they would not have an up-to-date knowledge (nor would it be of benefit to them to acquire this knowledge if they are in a position where they are excluded from making an attempt) and therefore relying on the advice of trustworthy active challengers would seem sensible to me.

Just to reply to Steve, I do not see how having a community of people with no interest in Tube Challenging will be of any benefit - mainly because without some sort of financial benefit there would be virtually no-one willing to adjudicate complex world record attempts that would take up much of their time.

I once postulated that a World Tube Challenge Organisation be set up as a governing body for Tube Challenges. It would protect against stupid rulings because it would work as a democracy, but it is a bit excessive - isn't it?

You can't say 'world tube challenging body'...

For all we know, there are underground societies (no pun intended) for tube challenging in other major cities that we just don't know about because they haven't made it public knowledge on the internet (or perhaps they have and been closed down by the network operator who disapproves of the sport)!

The more you think about it, the more you realise it's a pointless venture.

How many of us will care in 10 years' time?

agree with that! im sure people will care about in 10 years but lets not go OTT and have this organising committee. waste of time.

I've just had a conspiracy theory, which I thought I'd share with you. Your thoughts please....

Take an anonymous tube challenger, let's call him Nakah.* Suppose that Nakah asked Guinness if Shoreditch still had to be visited as part of the London tubechallenge. Guinness wrote back to him saying that this would be really silly, as Shoreditch has now permanently closed. However the sneaky Nakah told everyone else that Guinness said that Shoreditch *did* have to be visited by bus after all.

So a few weeks letter Nakah makes a record attempt, saving roughly 10 minutes by not visiting Shoreditch, and sets a new record by, er, roughly 10 minutes. Having convinced all challengers that Shoreditch still has to be visited, he can sit back, relax, and cackle evilly, knowing his record is safe.

(* Names of individuals have been changed to protect anonymity.)

Very interesting theory! I'm both surprised and not that this theory has not been put forward before. I simply think that if you trust others, you'll also be trustworthy...

On the other hand if, let's say someone else like "Mrofewav" had made such a claim, I guess people wouldn't trust it...

I guess the easiest way to confirm/debunk this theory is for you to put the question to Guinness yourself! I'd be surprised if Nakåh is in fact the only one that has done it.

Furthermore, I have from good source that this, by now infamous, Nakåh is contemplating publishing the entire route/plan and perhaps even all evidence eventually, since the cat is already out of the box. BTW Do you think he should?

Anyway, Ric, best of luck in your new life!

hwolge wrote:Furthermore, I have from good source that this, by now infamous, Nakåh is contemplating publishing the entire route/plan and perhaps even all evidence eventually, since the cat is already out of the box. BTW Do you think he should?

If Nakah publishes his entire route/plan there will be a sudden glut of people copying it and trying to get the record for themselves.

I've always believed that no one should give their route away if it is a good one, as it just makes the whole thing easier, and last time I checked getting a world record was something of a challenge.

Nakah should keep his route to himself and let the freeloaders work it out for themselves.

I totally agree with you Neil. Even if they don't copy your route in it's entirity, there will be certain sections of your route that people will not have thought of, and will therefore incorporate into their own routes. Like Neil says, the idea of a Tube Challenge is the challenge part of it, and there is no harder challenge than coming up with a practical, fast route, of your own devices.

I would suggest that Nakåh keeps his route secret and does not let the Shoreditch secret out of the bag until Guinness has confirmed the record.

Gentlemen, may I remind that when this "problem" arose towards the end of the Seventies,Underground Roving or whatever the group were called, had been subsumed into the London Underground Railway Society, who promptly formed a Roving sub-committee from the main Committee. It was LURS that were asked by GWR, under the McWhirter regime, to supervise the record attempts and it was LURS that authorised the first new record set for some years, Ongar-Upminster. I know because I was an independent arbiter for LURS along with others that day.

I regret to say that the present book does not stimulate any interest in me to buy a copy as the old myriads of records data style has long gone, and it is interesting that so many people hark back to the last edition with the old style for information. I still cannot see why GWR even bother with the record since it has not been published for years, and was not in every issue either!

May I respectfully suggest that LURS is the best organisation to take on the mantle again?

The idea of tranferring record administration to LURS is, in my opinion, very good -- but the appeal of saying 'I have a LURS World Record' is not quite as great as that of saying 'I have a Guiness World Record'. This, for me, would not alter whether or not I try and break the record.

This may, however, be good for us anyway because only people who really want to travel round the tube for a day would actually do it. It would stop people from coming onto here and doing a tube challenge just for the appeal of a GWR.

This is quite a good discussion point and, although I'm not totally sure what power we have here, I think it would certainly be a good idea to consider as a group..

As I understand it, LURS would just be the proper body to authenticate records and manage the rules, whilst GWR would still officially "grant" the records eventually. But with this setup there would be a knowledgeable and less arbitrary (when it comes to tube related issues) body that ruled the attempts.

Question is though: To what extent does LURS exist today? And would it be interested in this?

LURS is I gather bigger than when I stopped being a member years ago. However, just to reiterate that LURS was appointed by Guinness Superlatives (when it was owned by Guinness course) to act as arbiters, just as they rely on associations to establish records and standards.

It is just a great shame that the present GWR seem to have no room for numerous records and I for one am not going to buy a copy. I really miss the tried and tested formula with all of the records published. I wonder if anyone else remembers the "A" and "B" records that they published?

Contact LURS via http://www.lurs.org.uk