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One was trying to take a short cut across a river and seemed as scared to see me as I was to see him!!

The other one was teenagers playing chicken. Grrr.

What is the procedure if someone is killed?

I assume you mean from the moment the fatality occurs (as in, my train hits them at 125 and spreads their body parts all over the line).

The first thing the driver does is slam the brakes in and hit the appropriate emergency button on whichever radio system they have. With the GSM-R in FGW HST cabs, hitting the red button (Group Emergency Call), will send a stop message to all GSM-R-fitted trains within a few miles, and put you in direct contact with the signaller/Network Rail so you can report the emergency.

And then you sit and wait. I wouldn't get out of the cab - I would wait for a response team to turn up, which would include the on-call manager. I would then be asked if I felt OK to take the train on, whether it be to finish the journey or just to get us to a station where I would be relieved. The police would arrive and cordon off the area, and all train movements are stopped until the gruesome process of recovering the body parts has been undertaken. Should the train have to proceed past any body parts on the line, they must be covered beforehand (that's actually in the rulebook).

And then you take a week off work on full pay for the stress, and the job's a good 'un.

As an interesting aside, anyone who went past Laira depot on a train recently would have seen an HST power car in the sidings with its entire cab removed. The power car is 43036, and it was involved in a fatality which was so violent, it lifted the cab from the floor of the power car, necessitating a complete cab replacement. I believe it's now under repair.

I'm not entirely sure what the managers/Network Rail response team/police actually DO as regards the recovery of the body/body parts, as I'd be staying well away from it all up front, only sticking my head out of the door when someone turns up to say hello.

That more or less covers it from a driver's point of view. The train involved will usually be sent to a depot with an underframe wash, where all the bits of person can be cleaned off. You may sometimes see a HEX train on the far side of Old Oak Common depot as you go by on a train, underneath what looks like some scaffolding. The chances are that the train was in a fatality, and has been shunted over there to be cleaned off.

From a Police point of view (having spent two years working in Norfolk Constabulary's control room):

The call comes in via Network Rail's relevant control room (in Norfolk's case, Liverpool Street), and a unit (along with Ambulance) will be despatched to the scene along with CSI (they get the job of picking things up). A cordon will be set up, and enquiries will be made to ascertain what happened. Assuming that the whole thing is 'non suspicious' (i.e. suicide, or if whoever committed the murder has perished as well), then the remains will be collected and handed over to the on-call undertaker. If the remains have been identified on scene, then a local unit will be assigned to pass on the agony message to the next-of-kin.

If identification hasn't occurred (which never happened during my time) then I assume that CSI/coroner will take charge of the remains in order for identification to take place.

If it all happens under suspicious circumstances, then the site will immediately become a murder scene and an increased cordon will be set up so that evidence can be gathered.

(IIRC, the driver also gets breathalysed and interviewed before being sent on his way.)

Finally, once all police involvement has ended, the scene will be handed back to Network Rail for services to commence/repairs to be made as necessary.

snudge27 wrote:(IIRC, the driver also gets breathalysed and interviewed before being sent on his way.)

Correct - the driver is always medi-screened after every fatality.

snudge27 wrote:(IIRC, the driver also gets breathalysed and interviewed before being sent on his way.).

Ahem.

Sam wrote:

snudge27 wrote:(IIRC, the driver also gets breathalysed and interviewed before being sent on his way.).

Ahem.

And women drivers are told to stop moaning and get the tea on.

Sam wrote:

snudge27 wrote:(IIRC, the driver also gets breathalysed and interviewed before being sent on his way.).

Ahem.

I don't see much wrong with that. It's a convenient grammatical construction rather than a remark that is said deliberately to generalise. Most other foreign languages have the "masculine default" in various constructions. I would not see any need to say "he or she" when everybody knows that that's what I mean anyway.

I think that complaining about this kind of thing goes a bit too far nowadays. Terms such as "mankind" are frowned upon by some people these days, even though these terms have never hinted at any gender exclusion. "Mankind" cannot so hint anyway because of its very definition - "the species homo sapiens". It is a word in its own right, and the inclusion of the letter string "man" is not enough to indicate a particular gender. If people are starting to take offence at such innocuous words as this, then sooner or later everything is going to offend somebody.

This idea of taking offence sometimes confuses me. What if I utter something in good faith, but person X tells me that they are offended by it? Is a subsequent apology not empty, because I have already voiced my opinion and X knows what it is? Is X expecting me to change my opinion, or apologise for an opinion that I have, or something else? I'm not sure I know what X wants me to do and why he wants me to do it.

Even the word "woman" contains the string "man". Should we change it to "wohuman"?

tubeguru wrote: As an interesting aside, anyone who went past Laira depot on a train recently would have seen an HST power car in the sidings with its entire cab removed. The power car is 43036, and it was involved in a fatality which was so violent, it lifted the cab from the floor of the power car, necessitating a complete cab replacement. I believe it's now under repair.

Without wanting to sound excessively morbid, how on earth does a lump of flesh and bone manage to give as good as it gets against a speeding lump of metal and fibreglass?

You've seen the film of chickens being fired at aircraft windows? It has nothing to do with the fragility of the object, and more to do with the speed it is travelling at.

They's the laws of physics ...

What if you hit someone at a much slower speed, and they are alive in dire need of help?

tractakid wrote:What if you hit someone at a much slower speed, and they are alive in dire need of help?

Well, I suppose if I hit someone at 30mph, they may well survive, but without legs or an arm. I still wouldn't get out of the cab. I'm not touching their mutilated body parts for anyone.

Some have indeed survived being hit quite recently on my network minus some legs in one case and the ability to think in another case...

Like Neil, there is no way that I would ever want to get out the cab even if there was a chance they were still alive. People are paid to look and deal with them and it certainly isn't me!

The main concern is that the driver will tamper with evidence, and also come into contact with blood and the such. That's what the paramedics are for. My basic first aid training doesn't cover severed limbs and dismembered corpses.

Blimey, it was five years ago today that I started the first day of my trainee driver course. How apt that my first solo drive as a Plymouth driver should be on this date. It only took me five years to sign the B&H ...