Watford

[tubeguru]

Watford LU station will close to passenger traffic, but the station will remain open for stabling trains.

[palkanetoijala31]

Well im glad its happening would Watford Junction have to come back into zone 9 though otherwise tickets wouldnt let you out of the station if need be!.

[snudge27]

Watford LU station will close to passenger traffic, but the station will remain open for stabling trains.

Could it then be theoretically possible to have Watford as an 'emergency' terminus, coming into passenger use if engineering works/emergency closures prevent use of the link from Croxley?

[moley]

It is definetely going to happen, it's been signed off, approved ... everything. Etc... DG wrote a post on it, here:

http://diamondgeezer.blogspot.com/2011/ ... inked.html

And yes, i also read somewhere that when the new Bakerloo trains come in (also by 2016) they will then run all the time up to Watford Junction.

People are also speculating though that a London Overground service might go between Chesham and Watford via the North Curve. That would then mean that for a Tube Challenge, there would be no more Chesham or Croxley through to WJ, but you WOULD have to do Hatch End, Carpenders Park, etc.. etc.. with a total station count of 273. Fascinating ...

I believe that the plan regarding Chesham - Watford Junction was for a half-hourly service via the North Curve. You would then have a four trains per hour service from Baker Street at 10/20 min intervals giving you an overall interval of 10 minutes. The only reason for it to be London Overground (or Chiltern) was that its suited to a 2 car train rather than an 8 car S Stock train.

That said, I've heard a rumour that a fleet of 10-12 4-car S-Stocks are now being seriously considered. Chesham services, Olympia services and then a Acton Town - Ealing Broadway shuttle* are all possible uses.

* I have good info that when the new Piccadilly line trains are ordered, it will be based on soley serving Heathrow at the southern end. With a some kind of HSK/City - Rayners Lane service coming to the District. With S Stock, I believe that they are exploring the options of not needing to Tip-Out before reversing in the siding.

[The Raven]

If the District does extend to Rayners Lane, that would mean the Metropolitan and the District line will share a station for the first time in years. (The classic bit of trivia being that they pass within meters of each other at Aldgate).

I think that would change route planning!

[RichieG]

If the District does extend to Rayners Lane, that would mean the Metropolitan and the District line will share a station for the first time in years. (The classic bit of trivia being that they pass within meters of each other at Aldgate).

I think that would change route planning!

I doubt that on its own would make too much of a difference to route planning, as you'd still need Ealing Broadway, and would still need to change at Acton Town for Heathrow. I'd also imagine that an Acton Town - Ealing Broadway shuttle would be a bit of an operational nightmare depending on its frequency.

Actually scratch most of that. I've thought a bit more and have realised that you wouldn't need Ealing Broadway as you'd be better off going in and out on the Central. Still think a AT-EB shuttle wouldn't work too well operationally.

As an aside, another thought that has occurred to me while writing this is that with four lines running the same stock, it's going to start to get a little annoying on the approach to some stations to see what trains are in the platforms... I can imagine myself arriving on foot at Rayner's Lane, seeing a S-stock in the south-/east-bound platform and rushing to get on it... only to find that where I wanted a southbound District line, it's an eastbound Metropolitan. (That's just an example, I can't think of any reason why I would be heading that way after running to Rayner's Lane!)

Watford LU station will close to passenger traffic, but the station will remain open for stabling trains.

Could it then be theoretically possible to have Watford as an 'emergency' terminus, coming into passenger use if engineering works/emergency closures prevent use of the link from Croxley?

I'd say that Croxley would be the passenger terminus, but Watford being the turning point, like Green Park / Charing Cross on the Jubilee.

Interesting ask about Watford Junction being put into the TfL zones... it makes sense that it should be, but while sorting out some files on my old computer a while back, I came across a 2003 map which, without the London Overground heading up that way meant that only the Bakerloo Line as far as Harrow & Wealdstone. There, despite it being in Zone 5, it is given the caption 'Special fares apply for single and return tickets to and from this station' - I'd imagine that for Travelcard purposes it was in Z5, but not for normal tickets...

[Steeevooo]

With regards to the potential confusion arising over the trains, is this not going to arise anyway at stations such at Great Portland Street (Is the train a Met line going to Baker Street Met, or a Circle/H&C going towards Hammersmith?) and at Liverpool Street (Is this a Circle/Met going to Aldgate or a H&C going to Aldgate East?).

Admittedly the consequences of getting on the wrong train in these situations are lesser than the consequence of getting on the wrong train at Rayners Lane, but the situation will still arise, will it not?

[The Raven]

Just thinking about it, don't the new S-stock have digital displays on the side (as well as the front) saying there line/destination on them? Plus just having a correctly coloured sticker on the windows saying "Metropolitan" or "District" would solve the problem as well. Also, when I'm unsure what train I've caught in a hurry is, I look at the line map over the door to see what it is.

[moley]

Now that would make more sense, for the Piccadilly to run to Ealing Broadway. Also, looking at the track diagram, a district shuttle from Acton Town would need to cross the picadilly line to and from the reversing sidding. So I can't actually see that happening - but its what I was told.

I'm convinced that some people within TfL are desperately trying to find a reason to have a sub fleet of short trains.

[RichieG]

With regards to the potential confusion arising over the trains, is this not going to arise anyway at stations such at Great Portland Street (Is the train a Met line going to Baker Street Met, or a Circle/H&C going towards Hammersmith?) and at Liverpool Street (Is this a Circle/Met going to Aldgate or a H&C going to Aldgate East?).

Admittedly the consequences of getting on the wrong train in these situations are lesser than the consequence of getting on the wrong train at Rayners Lane, but the situation will still arise, will it not?

My comment was a general one, but as my mind was on the idea of Rayners Lane at the time hence that example! I did think of GPS, but couldn't think of many times when you'd arrive there on foot to quickly catch the next train heading north / west - the only times I have it's been post-darts and I've been heading back to Paddington, but I'm not in a rush at that point and usually miss a train when I arrive anyway! The 'confusion' will happen wherever the S-stock lines share tracks; another situation I'd find myself in is at Upton Park station when heading back towards Paddington (although my friend still doesn't quite understand how I can tell the difference, even after saying 'a train with one big door is not going there, a train with two little doors is', she still asks me how I can tell the difference between the two trains... and she's lived in London all her life...)

[hopeful traveller]

The district extension idea is not a bad one, especially when you have a look at some of the platforms between South Harrow and North Ealing!

With regard to train confusion, then I believe that if they have a similar setup to Baker Street, Gloucester Road, Edgware Road etc. where the lines are given their own separate platforms then there should be no problem, but I don't see how to construct a third platform at Rayners Lane without knocking down a car park!

[Steeevooo]

And how do you propose building the extra platforms at stations such as Great Portland Street?

[hopeful traveller]

And how do you propose building the extra platforms at stations such as Great Portland Street?

Baker Street is fine.

[Steeevooo]

And Liverpool Street?

[hopeful traveller]

And Liverpool Street?

Those corridors are far too wide...