Tumbleweed - The Rules and Discussion

[tubeguru]

I will investigate this and address it tomorrow when I can be arsed.

[tubeguru]

OK, I have seen three issues this week which I shall comment on now. First, RichieG's somewhat interesting attempt to play the game yesterday.

His first claim was for 80 weed, fifteen minutes after the clock was last reset. He said:

I don't actually follow or fully understand the instructions... but I will here say

75 weed

and hope I'm at least part way correct...

I know some people may argue that this post is a combination of a claim and a spoiler, but I'm happy to be lenient as he had clearly indicated he was claiming points. Unfortunately, the result of this was -75 points.

He then followed that up by trying to claim 80 weed at 22.05, the clock having last been reset at 21.42. So another 80 points down the drain, and his score for the week so far is -155 points. I trust he understands how the game works now. I understand it may have been a time zone issue.

[tubeguru]

Issue number two.

On Saturday morning at 07.20, jamesthegill claimed four bells and 45 weed in the same post. This sparked a discussion about the resetting of the clock, and how many points Sam could have claimed in her next post.

The rules state that in the case of a multiple claim such as James's, if the first portion is valid (four bells), he would score than amount and lose the number of points claimed in he second portion (45 points). As the four bells scores points, it is a VALID claim and the clock IS reset to the time of his post. Therefore Sam was correct in claiming one bell at 08.20, and not five bells as TheRaven thought she could. scrxisi was subsequently incorrect when he claimed Sam could have had five bells.

Although the rules don't specifically say that the clock will reset in the event of a multiple claim where the first portion is valid, it is implied that it will be, as a valid claim has been made. I will change rule 2 so it states that the clock will be reset in that event, if it makes it clearer for people.

And for further clarification - the second, invalid part of a multiple claim does NOT affect the clock resetting, unless BOTH parts of the claim are invalid, in which case a clock reset will NOT occur. This is because the whole thing is one big invalid claim for points.

So just as everyone is clear as to how I interpreted that short passage of play, here is what happened and how it affected the game clock:

jamesthegill - 07.20 - 4 bells, 45 weed - clock RESET as a valid claim was made (4 bells)
Sam - 08.20 - 1 bell (clock reset)
Raven - 08.21 - spoiler (clock reset)
Sam - 08.25 - spoiler (clock reset)
Sam - 08.27 - spoiler (clock NOT reset, consecutive spoiler)
Raven - 09.10 - 40 weed (clock reset - could have had 45 weed from 08.25)
Raven - 09.12 - spoiler (clock NOT reset, consecutive spoiler)
Sam - 09.34 - 20 weed (clock reset)
Sam - 09.35 - spoiler (clock NOT reset, consecutive spoiler)
Raven - 09.40 - spoiler (clock reset)
scrxisi - 10.09 - spoiler (clock reset)
Raven - 10.32 - 20 weed (clock reset)

and so on ...

Does everyone follow my reasoning here? The thing to remember is that this is how I will ALWAYS interpret this, and therefore if the rules are not clear, I will amend them to fit my thinking, and not my thinking to fit the current rules.

[tubeguru]

And now I need to make a cup of tea before investigating greatkingrat's loophole from yesterday.

[tubeguru]

Rule 2 says that claims for bells and weeds together are invalid, but you still get some points for them. This appears to open up a loophole.

1000 - last valid claim posted
1105 - A claims 1 bell and 5 weed (and gets 75-5 = 70pts) but as the claim is invalid the clock is not reset.
1106 - B claims 1 bell and 5 weed and gets 70 pts and the clock is not reset
1107 - A claims 1 bell and 5 weed and gets 70 pts and the clock is not reset
1108 - A claims 1 bell and 5 weed and gets 70 pts and the clock is not reset

and so on.

Interesting point. As I mentioned in my last clarification post regarding the James/Sam 4 bells/1 bell/5 bells thing, if an ENTIRE multiple claim is invalid, the clock is not reset and the player loses ALL the points they claimed for. If the first part is valid, the clock IS reset. So, let's apply that to your example.

At 11.05, player A does indeed get his 75 points for the bell correctly claimed, and loses five points for the weed. Your error is in assuming that the clock is NOT reset at 11.05. The clock IS reset, as the player made a valid claim for one bell.

So therefore, the player claiming at 11.06 can only claim from 11.05, and therefore he ends up with minus 80 points. The clock is NOT reset as his ENTIRE multiple claim is invalid.

The player claiming at 11.07 can also only claim from 11.05. He also loses 80 points and the clock is not reset for the same reason as the 11.06 player. This goes on until someone makes a valid claim in relation to the last clock reset at 11.05.

Indeed, the next valid claim in your example above is at 11.10 for five weed. Once again, as I mentioned before, I may need to make this clearer in rule two. So therefore, there is no loophole here.

So once again, the underlying thing that everyone must understand here is:

IF A MULTIPLE CLAIM IS MADE, AND THE FIRST PART IS VALID, THE CLOCK WILL BE RESET FROM THE TIME OF THE CLAIM.

That should be clear now.

[tubeguru]

I have amended the rules on page seven of this thread, and have added the bit about the resetting of the game clock with regard to multiple claims.

See the very end of rule two, and also the clarification in rule seven, where I have added a couple of bits regarding when the clock will (or won't) be reset when multiple claims are made.

I should be paid for this ...

[Soup Dragon]

Thanks Neil, thats all seems clear enough to me.

[jamesthegill]

Question - what if someone posts "0 weed" (as I nearly did accidentally the other day when my typing was faster than the page loading). Would it reset the clock?

[tubeguru]

That would be an invalid claim - claims are to be made in multiples of five only. Zero is not a multiple of five. So, the clock would NOT be reset, as it's an invalid claim, but of course, because the player claimed zero points, they lose zero points.

So in other words, claiming "0 weed" is the same as posting a spoiler and not resetting the clock - a "free" spoiler, if you like.

[Starkey7]

Er ... Neil ... zero IS a multiple of five, because it is equal to an integer (in this case, 0) times 5.

[Starkey7]

You may make any rules you like about the game, but you will not make up rules about maths, or worse, change the definitions of mathematical terms. That's my job.

[Root]

That's your job? I thought you devised train timetables. No wonder they're always late...

[tubeguru]

OK.

Let me put it another way. Zero is not a valid claim.

[tubeguru]

OK, the very first post in this thread has been edited so that the new rules are now in it.

The old rules have been deleted, never to return. Carry on.

[tubeguru]

I noticed this interesting exchange whilst going through the scores today. This is from Saturday afternoon:

13.16 - garion24wales claims 1 bell (valid claim)
13.46 - scrxisi claims 30 weed (valid claim)
15.34 - scrxisi posts: "illegal spoiler" (ignored under rule 5)
16.08 - TheRaven claims 2 bells (valid claim - well spotted)

Don't forget that a valid claim followed by a spoiler will result in the spoiler being IGNORED and the game clock running from the time of the claim. Also, the number of people not checking the previous claim to see if it was valid is still on the up. I know you're all desperate to claim something before someone else does, but it's always worth looking back a couple of posts just to make sure the previous person wasn't off their head when they claimed.