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"Official" Tube Challenge Adjudicators

Posted: 06 Dec 2016, 08:00
by Tube Geek
As mentioned here, the prospect of a TCA Association isn't ridiculous.... I'd be happy to do it from home!

Re: "Official" Tube Challenge Adjudicators

Posted: 06 Dec 2016, 10:53
by Steeevooo
Or we could just let Guinness World Records continue to do what they have been doing (albeit with varying degrees of ineptitude) for many years in adjudicating world record attempts in accordance with the criteria that they lay down.

Why would anyone trust a 12 year old with absolutely zero tube challenge experience to cast an eye over and adjudicate a record? The fact that you have to put "Official" does kind of show that there would be absolutely nothing official about it too.

Re: "Official" Tube Challenge Adjudicators

Posted: 06 Dec 2016, 13:19
by Tube Geek
Not official record, but if (say) it was turned down by GWR, someone could check.it before putting it on here..

Re: "Official" Tube Challenge Adjudicators

Posted: 06 Dec 2016, 16:22
by tubeguru
Guinness, one assumes, have a means of contacting LUL to check train times and numbers. That hasn't changed over the years has it? I always thought that Guinness would be able to contact someone in the know at LUL, who would be able to confirm that the claimed journeys had been made.

I'm wondering how Tube Geek plans on getting that information to verify an attempt. And if GWR *did* turn a record attempt down I'm sure they'd have a good reason, not one that could simply be overturned by a member of the public trying to find out why. I know certain people on this forum (including certain ex-members) have criticised Guinness for refusing to recognise some attempts they have made, but I'm sure there must have been a good reason for it.

We're not really able to claim to be better-placed than Guinness to verify attempts, so the whole thing is nonsense.

Re: "Official" Tube Challenge Adjudicators

Posted: 06 Dec 2016, 16:57
by greatkingrat
You have greater faith in Guinness than I do. I don't think they check the log at all. Remember it takes them several months to verify the record by which time the data might not be available anyway and I suspect LU staff have better things to do than go back and check whether train 123 to Mill Hill East did indeed depart at 10:46:32 on the 15th June.

I think anyone on this forum could come up with evidence that looks plausible enough to claim a fake record if they really wanted to.

Re: "Official" Tube Challenge Adjudicators

Posted: 06 Dec 2016, 17:00
by GuyBarry
tubeguru wrote:Guinness, one assumes, have a means of contacting LUL to check train times and numbers. That hasn't changed over the years has it? I always thought that Guinness would be able to contact someone in the know at LUL, who would be able to confirm that the claimed journeys had been made.
They could confirm that those trains had run, but not that those journeys had been made. As far as I know LUL do not keep records of every passenger getting on and off every train.

Re: "Official" Tube Challenge Adjudicators

Posted: 06 Dec 2016, 17:20
by tubeguru
greatkingrat wrote:You have greater faith in Guinness than I do. I don't think they check the log at all. Remember it takes them several months to verify the record by which time the data might not be available anyway and I suspect LU staff have better things to do than go back and check whether train 123 to Mill Hill East did indeed depart at 10:46:32 on the 15th June.

I think anyone on this forum could come up with evidence that looks plausible enough to claim a fake record if they really wanted to.
It would be nice if we could actually KNOW what Guinness do when presented with a record attempt.

Re: "Official" Tube Challenge Adjudicators

Posted: 07 Dec 2016, 06:34
by A Challenge
tubeguru wrote:
greatkingrat wrote:You have greater faith in Guinness than I do. I don't think they check the log at all. Remember it takes them several months to verify the record by which time the data might not be available anyway and I suspect LU staff have better things to do than go back and check whether train 123 to Mill Hill East did indeed depart at 10:46:32 on the 15th June.

I think anyone on this forum could come up with evidence that looks plausible enough to claim a fake record if they really wanted to.
It would be nice if we could actually KNOW what Guinness do when presented with a record attempt.
Tonight: Inside Guinness World Record
Inside Guinness World Records: Panorama

Don't think there is a chance that either of these would ever happen though!

Re: "Official" Tube Challenge Adjudicators

Posted: 07 Dec 2016, 06:51
by Tube Geek
Unless there was some kind of major scandal involving them...

Re: "Official" Tube Challenge Adjudicators

Posted: 07 Dec 2016, 08:28
by Nigel
tubeguru wrote: It would be nice if we could actually KNOW what Guinness do when presented with a record attempt.
As some members of the forum know, a few years ago, I entered into a dialogue with Guinness about some doubts that existed about a recently ratified record. These doubts were fuelled by misinformation that had been put out by the record holder about their route, which had led some to suppose that apparent inconsistencies were evidence of malpractice.

After an initial exchange of letters with Guinness about the issue, I then spoke on a couple of occasions with the adjudicator of this claim. She was based in New York, and while she tried to be diligent in checking the evidence presented, she had no real knowledge of the London Underground system and had not verified anything with TfL.

Re: "Official" Tube Challenge Adjudicators

Posted: 07 Dec 2016, 12:25
by Going Underground
I have mentioned before you could quite easily get a GWR for this sat cosily at home....

Re: "Official" Tube Challenge Adjudicators

Posted: 27 Jan 2017, 08:07
by nozzacook
Going Underground wrote:I have mentioned before you could quite easily get a GWR for this sat cosily at home....
This is why Guinness are trying too get applicants to send oyster records as well.

Re: "Official" Tube Challenge Adjudicators

Posted: 28 Jan 2017, 17:47
by moley
Nigel wrote:
tubeguru wrote: It would be nice if we could actually KNOW what Guinness do when presented with a record attempt.
As some members of the forum know, a few years ago, I entered into a dialogue with Guinness about some doubts that existed about a recently ratified record. These doubts were fuelled by misinformation that had been put out by the record holder about their route, which had led some to suppose that apparent inconsistencies were evidence of malpractice.

After an initial exchange of letters with Guinness about the issue, I then spoke on a couple of occasions with the adjudicator of this claim. She was based in New York, and while she tried to be diligent in checking the evidence presented, she had no real knowledge of the London Underground system and had not verified anything with TfL.
The last time we claimed a record were sent a list of queries based on our rather full portfolio of evidence. This led me to believe that Guinness use information in the public domain to verify claims. That said, more information than ever is in the public domain.

You have to remember that there are three levels of verification:
Very premium: on the day Guinness attendance at attempt to verify then and there,
Premium: quick turnaround.
Everyone else.

As I understand it, the Guinness headcount is relatively small and that number of people is spread across the globe. Therefore the more very premium / premium requests, the longer everyone else's claim takes. Likewise, when they are preparing the book, it seems to take longer.

Re: "Official" Tube Challenge Adjudicators

Posted: 28 Aug 2017, 00:10
by RJSRdg
GuyBarry wrote:
06 Dec 2016, 17:00
tubeguru wrote:Guinness, one assumes, have a means of contacting LUL to check train times and numbers. That hasn't changed over the years has it? I always thought that Guinness would be able to contact someone in the know at LUL, who would be able to confirm that the claimed journeys had been made.
They could confirm that those trains had run, but not that those journeys had been made. As far as I know LUL do not keep records of every passenger getting on and off every train.
They do (CCTV footage) but only for 20 days.

Re: "Official" Tube Challenge Adjudicators

Posted: 25 Sep 2017, 08:04
by FelixJ20000
Would it be so ridiculous to form a small governing body? *shrugs*

(not saying it should be in the hands of a 12 year old - no offence to you Tube Geek)