Tubefest 07: Zone 1 Challenge Friday 18th May

[tubeguru]

And you are allowed to go into Zone 2 if you so desire. (I did, once.)

I think you can go wherever you choose. Anyway was zone 2 so bad that you only went there once?

I live in Zone 2 - what's wrong with it, eh?

[Going Underground]

And you are allowed to go into Zone 2 if you so desire. (I did, once.)

I think you can go wherever you choose. Anyway was zone 2 so bad that you only went there once?

I live in Zone 2 - what's wrong with it, eh?

On the infamous Z1 "Cannon Street Run" last year I was in a team with londongirl and K9....
We used the National Rail link to Vauxhall and picked up a Victoria Line straight away..... Feeling rather smug at such a good connection I was a little perplexed to see the "Stockwell" roundel appear through the window rather that "Pimilico"

[tubeguru]

That was your fault, not Zone 2's

[Going Underground]

That was your fault, not Zone 2's

It most certainly was and personally I have nothing against Z2

But I did continue and register a time, so by way of answering young starkeys question, yes you are allowed into Z2 or even, A, B, C and D if you so desire......

[tubeguru]

Actually, my nearest tube station is on the boundary of 2 and 3, but my nearest NR station is in zone 2.

I know it's hard to equate geographical locations to a diagrammatic map, but the X marks roughly where my house is (ignore the white space at the bottom):

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So I am in Zone 2, aren't I?

[Garion]

You appear to be!

[Starkey7]

Topologically speaking, you could be in zone 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, A, B, C or D, but if we don't speak mathematically and instead speak with common sense, you are indeed in zone 2.

[tubeguru]

&You don't do much "speaking in sense" do you?

[hwolge]

Topologically speaking, you could be in zone 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, A, B, C or D, but if we don't speak mathematically and instead speak with common sense, you are indeed in zone 2.

What's the inherent topological problem with Zone 1, since you exclude it? (Or, indeed, no zone at all!)

Anyway, by definition only stations belong to zones, right? A reasonable definiton of a geographical zone concept could be:
* Take a map.
* Put Zone-coded nails at every stop (letting stations actually have a size would not really change this argument, unless they would overlap each other...).
* Tie and tighten a string around (outside) all Zone 2 nails, but make sure the string does not include any Zone 3+ nails.
* Repeat the process for zone 1 to exclude this inner area.
* Give a minute's thought about how dual-zone stations should be handled.
* This would give a well defined area which is zone 2.

Do you live in it then Neil?

BTW Do bus stops belong to zones? If so, how do you find out which?

[tubeguru]

Erm, why don't you go and do that for me and let me know ...

Under the old system bus stops were indeed in certain zones, but now that the flat fare is £2 for any journey, bus stop zones have become obsolete.

I don't know if some stops still have the indicators on which say which zone a stop is in.

[hwolge]

Erm, why don't you go and do that for me and let me know ...

Under the old system bus stops were indeed in certain zones, but now that the flat fare is £2 for any journey, bus stop zones have become obsolete.

I don't know if some stops still have the indicators on which say which zone a stop is in.

But the Zoned travel cards are still valid on buses... How does that work?

[tubeguru]

Are paper travelcards still issued, or is it all Oyster now?

If it's Oyster then the bus oyster reader will know which "zone" it is in. Otherwise, I don't know.

[hwolge]

Are paper travelcards still issued, or is it all Oyster now?

If it's Oyster then the bus oyster reader will know which "zone" it is in. Otherwise, I don't know.

Well, they better be available (for us tourists...)!

Ok, I did some quick research:

Travelcards can be used on the Tube, DLR, tram and National Rail† within the zones covered by your ticket and on all London Buses displaying this sign: (the normal red bus roundel)
They also include a 1/3 discount off scheduled Riverboat services. Only Travelcards covering zones 3,4,5 or 6 are valid on trams.

I.e. Any travelcard is good for all buses! Buses are no longer zoned.

[tubeguru]

Yes.

Abolishing bus zones meant that they had to go completely.

[gasman]

Topologically speaking, you could be in zone 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, A, B, C or D, but if we don't speak mathematically and instead speak with common sense, you are indeed in zone 2.

What's the inherent topological problem with Zone 1, since you exclude it? (Or, indeed, no zone at all!)

Well, even from a purely topological point of view (which of course bears no resemblance to anything meaningful in the real world, but who cares about that?) you could convincingly prove that Neil's house can't possibly be in zone 1, if we assume that lines only ever cross zone boundaries where indicated on the London Connections map (so, for example, we accept that the Circle Line never crosses the zone 1/2 boundary, even between stations).

This is because it's possible to construct a closed loop that entirely encloses Zone 1 (such as Richmond (NLL) - Stratford (DLR) - Lewisham (NR) - Battersea Park (NR) - Clapham Junction (NR) - Richmond) while Neil's house definitively lies outside it. Likewise, you could prove that it isn't in zones A/B/C/D, assuming that the lines to High Wycombe and Watford Junction extend to infinity.

A minor snag with the above argument is that we can't be sure that any given variant of the tube map is a topologically accurate representation of the real world, as we saw in the Bottle Challenge / Edgware Rd / Marylebone debate. To anyone making this objection, I say *ppptthhht*.