Random 15 Championship 2018/19: Round 2

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Going Underground
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Re: Random 15 Championship 2018/19: Round 2

Post by Going Underground » 14 Nov 2018, 18:40

**Update**

Parkrun (TBD): GU = Brooklands (if at all possible to make in time)
Spoons (TBD) : Roblo97, GU, A2 (possible) - Elmbridge Arms, Weybridge (assuming Brooklands parkrun made)
Attending: Roblo97, RJSRdg, GU, A2 (possible +1), michael_churchill, alexmcmotor + Simon
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Re: Random 15 Championship 2018/19: Round 2

Post by tangy » 14 Nov 2018, 23:26

michael_churchill wrote:
14 Nov 2018, 13:13
It's possible that, for example, Liverpool Street (LU) will be in the first envelope and Liverpool Street (NR) will be in the second envelope, so you'll have to go back. In that case, the first time around you must arrive or depart from Liverpool Street on an Underground train (Central, H&C, Met or Circle) and the second time you must arrive or depart on a NR service (inc. Overground and TfL Rail)
Correct, as Liverpool Street LU and Liverpool Street NR are two separate stations, as defined by there being separate barrier lines for each network. Beware with shared stations such as West Brompton, Wimbledon or Farringdon (for example) which only have one barrier line for all modes, your time will only be valid if you visit the station on the correct network for that envelope. So visiting Wimbledon whilst on envelope one solely by stopping on a SWT train will NOT count (but will count if on envelope two).
For the NR stations, do you have to be on a service that stops at that station, or are fast trains that pass through allowed?
In line with official GWR rules, only trains that call at the station will be regarded as a visit (trains that are scheduled to pass through non-stop will not count). So if Clapton (for example) comes out you can only use the Overground Chingford line trains that call there, rather than the Stansted Express which passes through Clapton without stopping.
If you can't complete within the 6 hour time limit, are you supposed to log your time at the last station before your time is up? So that tangy can rank competitors on who completed 14 stations fastest, for instance.
Rule 14 of the Rules state: There is a time limit for a “normal” Random 15 challenge of 4 hours. If you are still challenging once 4 hours has ticked by then stop the clock at the next station the train you are on stops at (or if you are at a station, then stop straightaway) and head to the post challenge meet point. “Twist” rounds will have an applicable amount of extra time added, as advised by the Organiser in advance of the challenge.

You may benefit from reading the full rules as listed here: http://www.explorerticket.co.uk/tubecha ... 5rules.htm
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Re: Random 15 Championship 2018/19: Round 2

Post by greatkingrat » 15 Nov 2018, 00:24

I think it would be a good idea for everyone to note down the time they reach station 14, particularly on this round, as it is possible if a particularly nasty set of stations come up that nobody might visit all 15 in the time limit!
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Re: Random 15 Championship 2018/19: Round 2

Post by michael_churchill » 15 Nov 2018, 12:27

tangy wrote:
14 Nov 2018, 23:26
Rule 14 of the Rules state: There is a time limit for a “normal” Random 15 challenge of 4 hours. If you are still challenging once 4 hours has ticked by then stop the clock at the next station the train you are on stops at (or if you are at a station, then stop straightaway) and head to the post challenge meet point. “Twist” rounds will have an applicable amount of extra time added, as advised by the Organiser in advance of the challenge.

You may benefit from reading the full rules as listed here: http://www.explorerticket.co.uk/tubecha ... 5rules.htm
Cheers for that, tangy. This is the bit I misunderstood.

So, for example, if you're on the way from station 14 to station 15 when the time limit expires, you should stop the challenge as soon as possible. If the next station happens to be station 15, you have finished. But, if there is more than one stop until station 15, you can only claim 14 stations. If you have logged the arrival time at station 14, you can claim that as your "finishing time", which will be under the time limit and could save a few vital minutes.

So, as greatkingrat says, it's a good idea to log the arrival times at stations as the time limit approaches. I tend to log the time of day of arrival/departure at each station anyway, and calculate "time elapsed" at the end.

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Re: Random 15 Championship 2018/19: Round 2

Post by michael_churchill » 15 Nov 2018, 12:46

So, I hope your royal tangyness will make sure the following stations are removed from the random generator for envelope 2, as I understand it they won't have any NR service on Saturday, according to the works listed on page 1.

Maryland
Forest Gate
Manor Park
Lea Bridge
Tottenham Hale (NR)
Northumberland Park

I recall the incident when Upper Holloway was listed while the GOBLIN was out of action and hurriedly replaced with Archway. Won't be able to do that when it comes time to open envelope 2!

Seems that Stratford (NR) can only be done by Overground!

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Re: Random 15 Championship 2018/19: Round 2

Post by greatkingrat » 15 Nov 2018, 13:24

Also Streatham Common and Norbury are closed. Southern trains into Victoria are either diverted to London Bridge or running via Crystal Palace.
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Re: Random 15 Championship 2018/19: Round 2

Post by xcooler123 » 15 Nov 2018, 21:21

For those worried about time limits, the "slowest" winning time for a R15 since 2009 where you had to visit 15 stations was Hugo's Champion's Twist last year (17/8 Championship Round 1, Zones 2-4, LU stations). The winners finished in a time of 04:37:02 but more importantly, all 14 teams finished within the 6 hour time limit (last place had a time of 05:38:02).

So we will either all be fine or we are breaking some records of sorts :lol:
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Re: Random 15 Championship 2018/19: Round 2

Post by A2 » 16 Nov 2018, 00:02

xcooler123 wrote:
15 Nov 2018, 21:21
So we will either all be fine or we are breaking some records of sorts :lol:
I don't know about that... we might have to visit Cannon Street three times this time round :P
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Re: Random 15 Championship 2018/19: Round 2

Post by DrainBrain » 16 Nov 2018, 09:50

michael_churchill wrote:
15 Nov 2018, 12:46
So, I hope your royal tangyness will make sure the following stations are removed from the random generator for envelope 2, as I understand it they won't have any NR service on Saturday, according to the works listed on page 1.

Maryland
Forest Gate
Manor Park
Lea Bridge
Tottenham Hale (NR)
Northumberland Park

I recall the incident when Upper Holloway was listed while the GOBLIN was out of action and hurriedly replaced with Archway. Won't be able to do that when it comes time to open envelope 2!

Seems that Stratford (NR) can only be done by Overground!
Also, there is industrial action on South Western Railway this Saturday, with reduced services running. In particular, the map at:

https://www.southwesternrailway.com/pla ... 7-november

indicates that Barnes Bridge, Chiswick and Kew Bridge will have no service. All are in zone 3.
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Re: Random 15 Championship 2018/19: Round 2

Post by michael_churchill » 16 Nov 2018, 10:58

DrainBrain wrote:
16 Nov 2018, 09:50
Also, there is industrial action on South Western Railway this Saturday, with reduced services running. In particular, the map at:

https://www.southwesternrailway.com/pla ... 7-november

indicates that Barnes Bridge, Chiswick and Kew Bridge will have no service. All are in zone 3.
Confirmed on realtimetrains.co.uk

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Re: Random 15 Championship 2018/19: Round 2

Post by RJSRdg » 16 Nov 2018, 22:24

The reduced service for the SWR strike may make it difficult for those doing Brooklands parkrun.
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Re: Random 15 Championship 2018/19: Round 2

Post by tufnellpark » 18 Nov 2018, 11:47

A triple Champion's twist round (split envelopes, Zones 1-3 and Network Rail) proved a test for all tube runners, young and old, novice and experienced. With a six hour time limit most failed to complete the 15 stations and staggered back to TCR in disappointment. In the pub afterwards there were many grumbles. "Horrible, too long, didn't enjoy it." But isn't that the point of a challenge; to take you out of your comfort zone.

The first section was simples. Five tube stations in the west, one in the middle, two in the east. We all finished in the east in about 2.5 hours. For the second section the starting point proved crucial. Would you have preferred southbound on the DLR at All Saints with only Shadwell and London Bridge NR stations in sight, which limited the options for a good start. Or Mile End heading east, giving Whitechapel, Liverpool Street, Kings Cross, Blackfriars as better options. We finished at Mile End with xcooler and the Orange One, which I reckon was the better choice. The second set of NR stations suggested either hitting the two stations in the south and then north from Euston...or up to Walthamstow Central across the north and then down south. Cue frantic timetable searching for London Overground, Southern and Thameslink.

xcooler and Mr Orange headed up to Tangyland from Liverpool Street. We tried the southern route starting at Whitechapel. An Overground to Clapham High St, tube to Balham and Southern to Victoria then tube to Euston seemed straightforward. Immediately we hit problems with the CJ train cancelled, meaning a 15 mins delay. Actually it turned up late but was terminated at Surrey Quays; thanks TfL. By the time we reached Wandsworth Common that 15 mins delay had turned into a 30 mins delay, so going south didn't work out. We had 5min stops at both Clapham Junction and Battersea Park for wheelchairs, which meant a late arrival at Victoria and a missed connection at Euston, costing us another 20 mins. 50 mins down on plan, we reached our 14th station with 15 mins left and headed back to the pub.

We didn't complete but even with the 30 mins delay down south, if we had arrived at Victoria on time making our Euston Overground train, we would have covered all 15 stations in just under 6 hours. So my conclusion is that with a fair run and no delays, 05:23 could have been achieved, meaning the 6 hour time limit was perfectly feasible and allowed for a delay or two. Unfortunately we had three delays. The problem is of course that with proper trains running every 20 or 30 mins, one delay (or mistake) can cost you half an hour. And I suspect that is what happened to most of us. A long day yes but still enjoyable.
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Re: Random 15 Championship 2018/19: Round 2

Post by The Orange One » 18 Nov 2018, 13:23

tufnellpark wrote:
18 Nov 2018, 11:47
xcooler and Mr Orange headed up to Tangyland from Liverpool Street.
Meanwhile, in Tangyland... actually it's probably better to start at the very beginning.

Frantic opening of envelopes at Paddington (B/C/D) led to everyone running down one of the two staircases onto the Circle/District platforms. After a few minutes and no trains, most people headed to the westbound platform where a District line eventually turned up to whisk us to Notting Hill Gate (except for those who decided to run Bayswater to Queensway because, um, they could?). Quick change at NHG onto an Ealing Broadway service all the way out to West Acton via Shepherd's Bush - three stations down already, can't be too bad, right?

Unright.

Back to Wood Lane, reach the platform to find we've just missed a Circle, wait 5 minutes for the H&C down to Hammersmith (H&C). Across the road and on the next District westbound, it was an Ealing Broadway, get out at Turnham Green, wait 5 minutes for the District down to Richmond via Kew Gardens, where ensued the wait for the delayed SWR reduced service back into town. Over to Clapham Junction, across to Vauxhall and down to the Tube. At Vauxhall, I made a quick decision to follow xcooler123 onto a southbound train, then changed at Stockwell to head up the Bank branch into town. Electing to team up with him at this point, London Bridge and Canary Wharf were deliberated, but the lure of easy connections at Bank and Poplar was strong, so we went via those two to All Saints. Passing through All Saints, we met tufnellpark and we continued together to Bow Church, ran over to Bow Road and waited for a westbound train into town to reach Mile End. Here endeth the first envelope, wasn't that bad in the end...

Frantically opening envelope two, we make a split second decision to stay on the train and continue down to Whitechapel, where the choice between Walthamstow Central and Peckham Rye had to be made. Choosing the more northern of the two and eschewing the run to Bethnal Green (NR), we instead opt for the ELL up to Dalston Junction, where we ran the 0.7 miles to Hackney Downs (yay), arriving to find absolute chaos on the Lea Valley lines. Waiting (because what can you do?) for a train that might never materialise, we were eventually blessed with a nonstop service to Walthamstow Central - result!

In the depths of Tangyland, we just missed a Victoria line train, but one was departing a minute later, so quickly down to Finsbury Park, where we ran to the surface to find a Moorgate service pulling in - result again! So via Drayton Park to Highbury and Islington, across to board yet another arriving train down to Euston. We have 4 minutes to reach the Overground, but we have a clear run up to the barriers so make it easily - and then tractakid reached the Overground about a minute after us just as the doors closed behind him! Up to Willesden Junction via Queen's Park (tractakid meant to get out at QPW but forgot), over to the Overground, 7 minute wait to head over to West Hampstead - but while we wait for the train, I have an idea...

Looking up train times, with long connections at both West Hampstead and Cricklewood coming up we make the choice to cut the corner, so alight at Brondesbury for the 189 bus towards Cricklewood. Progress up Shoot Up Hill is slower than expected, so David makes the call to bail at Skardu Road with just under 5 minutes and 700m to go and we run. David reaches the train and I'm halfway up the ramp to the platforms where I hear the door alarms go - yelling at him to hold, I make it onto the train and collapse on the floor, then remember we have to get off at the next stop… here we go again. Out at West Hampstead and across to the Overground, slower than usual, and yet another door alarms episode where I stumble onto the train – thankfully no more proper runs!
Round to Willesden Junction, 8 minute wait for the Clapham Junction train and slowly down the West London Line to Clapham Junction. With four minutes change time and 50 minutes left on the clock it’s over the bridge to platform 15 and a Southern service through Wandsworth Common… if we can get there! We’re sat down on the train and discover there’s a fault with the doors, which the driver tries to fix… please don’t break now! Thankfully, he appears to solve the problem and it’s down to Wandsworth Common and then on to Balham… where the train doors don’t open. More worryingly, after a few seconds all doors throughout the train lit up as “Door Not In Use” – but they did finally open and let us out onto the platform. Down to the Northern Line, quickly onto a train to Clapham North, walked across to Clapham High Street and a 6 minute wait for the final train through to Peckham Rye for a final time of 05:45:30.

TL;DR

Paddington (B/C/D) :arrow: Notting Hill Gate (District) :arrow: West Acton (Central) :arrow: White City (Central) :arrow: Wood Lane (run) :arrow: Hammersmith (H&C) (H&C) :arrow: Hammersmith (D/P) (run) :arrow: Turnham Green (District) :arrow: Richmond (District) :arrow: Clapham Junction (SWR) :arrow: Vauxhall (NR) (SWR) :arrow: Vauxhall (LU) (run) :arrow: Stockwell (Victoria) :arrow: Bank (Northern) :arrow: Westferry (DLR) :arrow: Poplar (DLR) :arrow: Bow Church (DLR) :arrow: Bow Road (run) :arrow: Mile End (H&C)

Mile End :arrow: Whitechapel (H&C) :arrow: Dalston Junction (Overground) :arrow: Hackney Downs (run) :arrow: Walthamstow Central (Overground) :arrow: Finsbury Park (Victoria) :arrow: Highbury and Islington (Great Northern) :arrow: Euston (LU) (Victoria) :arrow: Euston (NR) (run) :arrow: Willesden Junction (Overground) :arrow: Brondesbury (Overground) :arrow: Skardu Road (189 bus) :arrow: Cricklewood (run) :arrow: West Hampstead Thameslink (Thameslink) :arrow: West Hampstead (LO) (run) :arrow: Willesden Junction (Overground) :arrow: Clapham Junction (Overground) :arrow: Balham (NR) (Southern) :arrow: Balham (LU) (run) :arrow: Clapham North (Northern) :arrow: Clapham High Street (walk) :arrow: Peckham Rye in 05:45:30.
All London buses: 23 hours 25 minutes (with Adham, David, Josh and Tangy)
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Re: Random 15 Championship 2018/19: Round 2

Post by RJSRdg » 18 Nov 2018, 17:16

Started at Paddington (B,C,D) and originally considered heading east to get the H&C at Edgware Road, but instead headed south. Raced everyone down the escalators at Notting Hill Gate and was surprised when I thought I'd reached the Central platform ahead of everyone else - until I realised I'd gone down one flight too many and was on the eastbound platform instead of the westbound one! Frantic rush back up and just managed to catch the same westbound as Kev, Pete, Tangy, Das and Michael. Through Shepherd's Bush to West Acton, where everyone else alighted - most aiming to do the North Ealing run. However, I realised that a change at Ealing Broadway would put me on the same train and save a run, so I did that. Sure enough Tangy, Das and Michael all joined me at Acton Town and we travelled to Chiswick Park for the run to Gunnersbury. Down to Kew Gardens for a doubleback, where Tangy boarded the next Overground and I joined him after crawling under a set of uncooperative barriers. At Gunnersbury, Tangy ran back to Chiswick Park, but my ankle started playing up, so I hopped on a bus with the aim of at least catching the District I could have caught at Kew, or possibly going straight to Hammersmith. There was quite a lengthy delay before the bus set off owing to a lady asking the driver for advice in a conversation where nearly everything said had to be repeated at least twice. Finally we were off, but a very stop-start journey, so at Stamford Brook bus garage, I asked the driver if this was the best stop for Stamford Brook Tube. He told me there was no such station! However, looking at my A to Z, I could see the next stop would do, so I jumped off there and ran to the non-existent station, to be met with a lengthy '1 minute' wait for the next District train which I could see held at Turnham Green. Eventually it arrived. No sign of Das or Michael, who we had left at Kew, and having ascertained that the train had come from Richmond, I thought I was 10 minutes down on them. Out at Hammersmith, over the road to Hammersmith (C,H&C). Slight delay here but then we were off up to Goldhawk Road. There was a southbound train in the other platform, but I had the door positions wrong here and was only halfway down the train, requiring me to run half the length of the platform. As I reached the end, I saw Das and Michael ahead of me. Down the steps, across and up. Das and Michael just missed the other train with me a couple of steps behind - had I got the correct door position, I may have made it. Next train arrived promptly but was held for some time (despite having a green signal) owing to "awaiting a platform at Hammersmith". Finally we got there, back over the road and through the shopping centre to board an eastbound Picc. At South Ken, Das and I alighted and just missed a Circle, while Michael travelled on to Green Park. We carried on east to Victoria, then down the Vic to Vauxhall. Up the stairs and on to SWR to Waterloo, east on the Jubilee to Canary Wharf. We then got lost in the shopping centre, but finally boarded a northbound DLR through All Saints to Bow Church. Neither of us had done this particular run before, and spent some time looking for a station by the railway bridge before we realised this was the wrong line (should have twigged by the overhead cables!), and resumed our run to Bow Road. Then on to Mile End in around three hours - slower than David's 2 1/2, mostly due to slow connections.

At Mile End, I opened the second envelope and headed east on the Central, opting to catch a bus from Leyton rather than doing the usual Leytonstone and Walthamstow runs. Progress on the bus was steady is unspectacular past the William IV (Zone 1 Day quiz pub) but approaching Walthamstow the traffic jam got heavier and soon the bus was being overtaken by pedestrians. Had I been on a proper bus with a rear platform, I would have jumped off, but instead made a mental note to get off at the next stop. There was no next stop, so I had to endure the crawl through the roadworks to Walthamstow Central. Seven minute wait here for a late running train, then down to Hackney Downs and the 'Eternal Walkway' to Central. Here I got confused by the DMI boards and ended up catching an eastbound train by mistake, only realising my error at Homerton. Fortunately not long to wait for the return service, but it put me a train down. Out at Highbury and Islington, 7 minute wait for the Northern City through Drayton Park (in the dark). On to the Vic at Finso, contemplated hopping off at KXSP for the Thameslink but decided three minutes wasn't long enough, so on to Euston. Up to Euston (NR) with a 12 minute wait for an Overground, so I grabbed a burger while I waited (just as well given the lack of food at the Brickies). By now I was coming to the realisation I would not complete, but I carried on. Eventually up to Queen's Park with the choice of a run uphill to Brondesbury Park, along the Overground to West Hampstead and up Thameslink, or run to the A5 and bus from there. Unsure of the timings of the Overground, I opted for the bus which again made slow but steady progress. Off at The Crown and round the corner to Cricklewood, where I met Felix and Max. We headed south but missed a Sevenoaks at Blackfriars, and with only seven minutes left on the clock and in any case not fancying a run through Peckham in the dark, we called it a day at Elephant and Castle.

Final time 5:34:45, 'finish' at West Hampstead Thameslink, with 13 stations visited. Had it not been for my error at Hackney, I could probably have got a 14th station.

I enjoyed the first half, the waits in the cold and dark in the second half weren't quite so enjoyable, especially in unfamiliar, less salubrious settings - I think this challenge is better suited to a summer month. Maybe possibly also combined with a 15 from 20 twist (i.e. 8 from 10 in the first envelope, 7 from 10 in the second).
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Re: Random 15 Championship 2018/19: Round 2

Post by michael_churchill » 19 Nov 2018, 10:44

I spent most of my day, including all of envelope 2, with Das, so this can probably count as a write-up for him too.
My route for the first envelope seems to be similar to others...

From Paddington (Praed Street), District to Notting Hill Gate, Central via Shepherd's Bush and West Acton to Ealing Broadway, District to Chiswick Park (joining RJSRdg and tangy), walk to Gunnersbury, Overground to Kew Gardens. A District had just been missed, tangy and RJSRdg got on an Overground, Das and I waited for the next District to Hammersmith. Over the road to the other Hammersmith for an up-and-back to Goldhawk Road. The train waited a long time at the platform, before we were told to detrain because of a fault. Then as RJSRdg mentioned the train back was delayed waiting for a platform, presumably because the faulty train was still taking one up.

Back over the road to the first Hammersmith. Here, I realise I reported the incorrect route to tangy on Saturday, but it makes no difference. I planned to take the District and change at Victoria, but I actually took the Piccadilly to Green Park, then changed to the Victoria, through Vauxhall to Stockwell. Then Northern to Bank, DLR to Poplar, change lines, through All Saints to Bow Church. Walk to Bow Road, District to Mile End. Envelope 1 complete in around 3 hours.

For the finish, I made good use of the rule clarification I got here before the event, so I'm providing validation with links to realtimetrains.

I stayed on the westbound District train, opening the second envelope at Mile End, and had a bit of planning time to allow me to decide to change at Whitechapel. On the southbound Overground platform at Whitechapel, Das caught up with me and we went together until he had to abandon.

Overground, via Peckham Rye to Clapham High Street. Walk to Clapham North, Northern to Balham. Southern, via Wandsworth Common, to Clapham Junction. (No services from Balham through Olympia?) Overground to Willesden Junction. Overground, via Queen's Park to Euston. Here, Das had to abandon because he had a concert at Camden Roundhouse to attend. realtimetrains has the train arriving at 1729(and 3/4), but it had just ticked over to 1730 on my watch so I submitted Das's result as 12 stations in 5 hours and 7 seconds.

I headed up the Northern Line to Kentish Town, then took the Thameslink to Cricklewood. I just managed to catch the Thameslink to St. Pancras, and spotted RJSRdg and Felix and Max sitting together - they didn't spot me until we were arriving at St. Pancras. On this train, I heard Geoff Marshall warning us about disruption on the line to Brighton.

I still had a chance to squeeze in one more station. Victoria to Highbury & Islington, then the Great Northern to Drayton Park which left at 1828 and arrived at Drayton Park at 1830 (and 20 seconds according to my watch). I was on that train before the six hour time limit expired and Drayton Park was the next stop after it expired so I could still claim 14 stations!

If there had been no time limit I would have continued on the Great Northern to Finsbury Park, Victoria to Walthamstow Central, then would have needed to go one stop on the Overground. It looks like I would have needed an extra 20 minutes.
Last edited by michael_churchill on 19 Nov 2018, 12:30, edited 1 time in total.

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