Football stadiums within the M25

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LavaChild
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Football stadiums within the M25

Post by LavaChild »

Hello!

I've been asked to help calculate a minimal route for a mini (personal) challenge in London. I'm struggling and while not exactly The Tube Challenge I think it's relevant enough that I may be able to draw on your collective experience! :-)

So, the challenge:
I've been asked to calculate a route to visit all Premier League, Championship, League One and League Two (plus, as a bonus, Wembley) football stadiums within the M25. The idea is to visit each (in any order) take a photograph there (and possibly a quick pint) and then move on to the next. As the mention of the pint suggests, this is not a race but optimising the route would be a massive help. Originally the hope was that this could all be completed in one day but I'm not sure how reasonable this is - Two days would be equally acceptable... Either way, I'm sure the route would be by-and-large the same.

My start/endpoint would be Ruislip or West Ruislip - whichever is most appropriate. Note that I am not limited to the tube but would prefer to restrict myself to public transport, thus buses and trains would also be fine.

So far I have drawn a blank - I thought it would be easy to look at the tube lines that each stadium is on (or nearest to). This is a reasonable starting point but I've struggled to optimise much beyond this. Not a surprise given this is the travelling salesman problem (or close to it) which N=NP hard. Ouch! I'd considered writing a computer program but I feel this is the sort of challenge which is best solved using real human experience.

My attempt to plan this route so far:
I have found numerous websites that, given a start/end point and a set of addresses, will optimise the route between them all. Unfortunately this only considers driving routes. The best websites appeared to be Map Quest and RouteXL. Both of these arrived at the same result. I then took the optimal driving route and used TfL Journey Planner to see how long it would take to get between each point using public transport. As you might expect, many of the routes that may be optimal by car (20 min drive) can be significantly worse by public transport (up to 80 min). This has a total time from start to end of 14 hours and twenty minutes assuming perfect changes and no allocated time for taking any photographs (or that important beer!). The route can be found here: http://www.routexl.com/f=E501pZ04

The list of stadiums and post codes is pasted at the end of this post. Also pasted are the TfL Journey Planner times for each leg of the route in the order suggested by Map Quest/RouteXL.

I am sure that given the optimisation that you guys do over the entire tube network this is much simpler. I'd really appreciate it if you could take a moment to look over the stadium locations and give any suggestions on a route.

Thank you!

Code: Select all

List of Stops
-------------

Wembley         International   HA9 0WS 

Chelsea         Premier League  SW6 1HS 
Arsenal         Premier League  N7 7AJ  
Tottenham       Premier League  N17 0AP 
West Ham        Premier League  E13 9AZ 
Crystal Palace  Premier League  SE25 6PU
QPR             Premier League  W12 7PJ 

Watford         Championship    WD18 0ER
Brentford       Championship    TW8 0NT 
Charlton        Championship    SE7 8BL 
Fulham          Championship    SW6 6HH 
Milwall         Championship    SE16 3LN

Leyton Orient   League One      E10 5NF 

Wimbledon       League Two      KT1 3PB 
Dag & Red       League Two      RM10 7XL

Code: Select all

Map Quest/RouteXL Route Journey Times
-------------------------------------

Ruislip
Watford         1h 09m
Arsenal         1h 10m
Tottenham       0h 38m
Leyton Orient   0h 56m
West Ham        0h 44m
Dag & Red       0h 38m
Charlton        1h 11m
Milwall         0h 55m
Crystal Palace  0h 47m
Wimledon        1h 11m
Fulham          1h 05m
Chelsea         0h 33m
QPR             0h 44m
Brentford       0h 52m
Wembley         1h 10m
Ruislip         0h 37m

TOTAL           14h 20m
palkanetoijala31

Re: Football stadiums within the M25

Post by palkanetoijala31 »

08:00 WATFORD
:arrow: Watford High Street :arrow: Willesden Junction :arrow:
09:25 QPR
:arrow: Shepherds Bush :arrow: Hammersmith :arrow: Earls Ct :arrow: Fulham Bway :arrow:
10:15 CHELSKI
:arrow: Putney Bridge :arrow:
10:55 FULHAM
:arrow: Putney :arrow:
11:40 BRENTFORD
:arrow: Clapham Junction :arrow: Thornton Heath :arrow:
13:00 CRYSTAL PALACE
:arrow: Thornton Heath :arrow:South Bermondsey :arrow:
14:10 MILLWALL
:arrow: London Bridge :arrow:
15:05 CHARLTON
:arrow: N.Greenwich (by bus) :arrow: West Ham :arrow: Upton Park :arrow:
16:05 WEST HAM
:arrow: Dagenham East :arrow:
16:55 DAGENHAM & REDBRIDGE
:arrow: Barking :arrow: Leyton Midland Road :arrow: bus to Leyton O
18:05 LEYTON ORIENT
:arrow: Hackney Downs (by Bus) :arrow: White Hart Lane :arrow:
19:15 SPURS
:arrow: Seven Sisters :arrow: Finsbury Park :arrow: Arsenal :arrow:
19:50 ARSENAL
:arrow: Finsbury Park :arrow: New Barnet :arrow: bus to Barnet FC :arrow:
20:40 BARNET

hi LAVACHILD HERE IS THE ROUTE WE USED A FEW YEARS AGO DOING THE EXACTLY SAME THING I THINK MANY PEOPLE MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN JOINING YOU FOR THIS ESPECIALLY WITH BEER INVOLVED.
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Re: Football stadiums within the M25

Post by RJSRdg »

What about Wembley? and does the Olympic Stadium need to be included?

It may be useful when doing the challenge to remember that Wembley and Arsenal are visible from NR trains (Wembley from as far away as the GWML!) if all that's required is an external photo!
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Re: Football stadiums within the M25

Post by Going Underground »

Hi there, this may help we did a simliar thing before....

http://www.tubeforum.co.uk/forum/index. ... =viewtopic
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LavaChild
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Re: Football stadiums within the M25

Post by LavaChild »

Hi and thank you for the responses - Incredibly useful!



palkanetoijala31 and Going Underground:
The routes look great. The differences I would make to it are:

-Add Wembley (HA9 0WS)
-Replace Barnet with Wimbledon (KT1 3PB)

Can you please give any advice where in the route these changes should best be made?



RJSRdg:
Yes, I'd like to include Wembley. I think as far as this particular plan is concerned it's important to actually have the photograph taken stood in front of the stadium. As much as I appreciate the suggestion I don't think I can include taking the photograph from the train!



Thank you once again for your efforts, they are greatly appreciated! :)
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Re: Football stadiums within the M25

Post by DrainBrain »

LavaChild wrote:palkanetoijala31 and Going Underground:
The routes look great. The differences I would make to it are:

-Add Wembley (HA9 0WS)
-Replace Barnet with Wimbledon (KT1 3PB)

Can you please give any advice where in the route these changes should best be made?
Wembley is easily added. Get out at Wembley Central on the first leg down from Watford High Street to Willesden Junction. (Or just take a pic from the train!)

WATFORD
:arrow: Watford High Street :arrow: Wembley Central :arrow:
WEMBLEY
:arrow: Willesden Junction
QPR
etc

Wimbledon is trickier. You could carry on down the District line after doing Chelsea, take a 131 bus from Wimbledon Station right to the ground, then return via the same route to pick up again at Putney Bridge.

CHELSKI
:arrow: Wimbledon :arrow: 131 bus :arrow:
AFC WIMBLEDON
:arrow: 131 bus to Wimbledon :arrow: Putney Bridge :arrow:
FULHAM
etc

Finish at Arsenal to miss out Barnet. (Similar changes if you start at Arsenal and go the other way.)

Timings would all change, of course.
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greatkingrat
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Re: Football stadiums within the M25

Post by greatkingrat »

Just make sure you do it before the end of the season otherwise you might have to visit Barnet as well!
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Re: Football stadiums within the M25

Post by A2 »

If you take http://www.steveprentice.net/tube/TfLSi ... _times.jpg as an approximation then you can get reasonable timings by assuming the following:

- dwell time at intermediate stations of 1 minute
- change of line at station of 3 minutes
- out of station, find a pub and down half a pint of 15 minutes.
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LavaChild
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Re: Football stadiums within the M25

Post by LavaChild »

Thank you once again for the replies. Considering the above, I've decided on the following route:

Watford
Wembley
QPR
Brentford
Fulham
Wimbledon
Chelsea
Crystal Palace
Milwall
Charlton
---
West Ham
Dag & Red
Leyton Orient
---
Tottenham
Arsenal

I might re-add Barnet to be on the safe side but that will be easy (as above - finish there rather than Arsenal). I'm now reconsidering adding in the Olympic Stadium - Any ideas? I know it comes somewhere within the dashed region above but I cannot work out the best way...

As it is I don't *think* time will be an issue any more as I think we'll be doing this over two days. I know it misses the spirit that you guys enjoy but I think it's more approachable for me - Even then, 8+ in one day will still be hard work! :)

Thanks again!
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Urzzz1871
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Re: Football stadiums within the M25

Post by Urzzz1871 »

Showed this to my son and he is desperate to have a go. We are going to do Watford - Wimbledon.

Any particular reason on your route you aren't picking up Chelsea after Fulham? Assume would be a lot quicker.
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Re: Football stadiums within the M25

Post by Urzzz1871 »

On my son's insistance we are heading up to have a go at this tomorrow, just for fun.

We are not doing Wembley, but have added in Barnet following their promotion last week. Though if we get a train ahead after Barnet, we could nip out at Wembley Park and take a photo from the top of the steps.

Our route is - Watford :arrow: Barnet :arrow: Arsenal :arrow: Spurs :arrow: Leyton Orient :arrow: Dagenham & Redbridge :arrow: West Ham :arrow: Charlton :arrow: Millwall :arrow: Crystal Palace :arrow: Wimbledon :arrow: Fulham :arrow: Chelsea :arrow: QPR :arrow: Brentford

Walking only route is timed at 11:45.
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Re: Football stadiums within the M25

Post by DrainBrain »

Urzzz1871 wrote:...
We are not doing Wembley, but have added in Barnet following their promotion last week. Though if we get a train ahead after Barnet, we could nip out at Wembley Park and take a photo from the top of the steps.
...
I'm sure you know that Barnet's ground is near Canons Park station, but did you know you can take a long distance picture of Wembley Stadium from the platform at Canons Park? I have done it myself.
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Re: Football stadiums within the M25

Post by palkanetoijala31 »

DrainBrain wrote:
Urzzz1871 wrote:...
We are not doing Wembley, but have added in Barnet following their promotion last week. Though if we get a train ahead after Barnet, we could nip out at Wembley Park and take a photo from the top of the steps.
...
I'm sure you know that Barnet's ground is near Canons Park station, but did you know you can take a long distance picture of Wembley Stadium from the platform at Canons Park? I have done it myself.
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Re: Football stadiums within the M25

Post by Urzzz1871 »

Yes the arch lies right in line with the tracks. Very nice view.

Anyway - completed in 10:55, and tracked that we covered just over 21k on foot, so equivalent to a half marathon.

Should be fairly straight forward to get it done quicker, as the stadiums arrived at by tube could all be ran to/from. However, in south London (Charlton, Millwall, Palace, and Wimbledon) we were out and back before the next train each time, so running would have made no difference.
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LavaChild
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Re: Football stadiums within the M25

Post by LavaChild »

Hi all,

I just wanted to thank you for all of your help with this. I split this over two days and did on Thurs/Fri.

Route was:

Thurs:
Watford
Wembley
QPR
Brentford
Wimbledon
Fulham
Chelsea
Crystal Palace
Millwall

Fri:
Charlton
West Ham
Dag & Red
Olympic Park
Leyton Orient
Tottenham
Arsenal
Barnet

We were not considering this a time constrained trip and so while we were keen to get the 'right' order we were happy to take it easier, stopping for food and drink as we went. Plenty of photo opportunity (walked around the perimeter of each stadium getting as best photos as we could - Watford, Wimbledon and West Ham we get pitch side). We walked between Fulham and Chelsea as the weather was great and we fancied a walk between two stadiums to get a feel of quite how close they were. Overall had a great time and it's been useful at confirming some stadiums we'd really like to get to a game for... And some others I'd be happy to avoid! Massive kudos to those that can manage it in a day - Even if a quick photo before moving on was all that would be required we'd have never got it done in a day. We had a number of travel disruptions on the Fri and those alone would have ended any chances of doing it in a day.

On the Sat we went to watch Southend v Wycombe at Wembley (League 2 Play-Off Final) - Supporting Wycombe and if only the game were a minute shorter we'd have been celebrating, ah well!

Overall it was a fun way to spend a few days. I doubt it's something I'll do again but it's generated a few fair laughs and memories. Thanks for all of the original route help!
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