Introducing a twist on the FNC - Termini Challenge

[The Orange One]

I don't have one, and doubt I'm ever going to get one.

[palkanetoijala31]

I don't have one, and doubt I'm ever going to get one.

Ian green aka robosparkle has two and yet he has never actually done the record to get back to the topic I think you have to include the trains that terminate at every possible finishing place ie on central Loughton,debden jubilee Willesden green,canons park,wembley park etc Bakerloo queens park Stonebridge park etc

[The Orange One]

As tractakid says, that would make it an 'almost FNC'. I believe this would spoil the challenge somewhat.

The point of this challenge is to see interesting ways of linking up the termini - I mean we all know how to link Edgware and Stanmore (or more often Canons Park), but on the FNC when we reach Stanmore from Edgware we always go straight back down the Jubilee. The fun here comes into play as when we reach Stanmore (probably on the Jubilee from Canons Park), how do we continue to Harrow and Wealdstone? Do we take a direct 340? Or head back down to Wembley Park, on to Northwick Park, run to Kenton and take the train into Harrow and Wealdstone? And from there do we consider taking London Midland to Watford Junction and running through to Watford - a move nobody ever does because they have to cover Northwood, Pinner and the like.

I'm starting to sympathise with tractakid's reduced challenge:

An alternative definition of terminus may be "a station at which there are no through London Underground services'. The stations by this definition would be Amersham, Chesham, Watford, Harrow & Wealdstone, Stanmore, Edgware, Mill Hill East, High Barnet, Cockfosters, Walthamstow Central, Epping, Upminster, Brixton, Morden, Wimbledon, Richmond, Heathrow Terminal 5, Ealing Broadway, Uxbridge, West Ruislip, Hammersmith (H+C), Kensington (Olympia).

Which would be brilliant if it didn't leave out Elephant and Castle, Aldgate and Stratford - all of which I feel should be included. I'm also fond of the idea of using the drain - apart from the last R15 I don't know when people use it!

[tractakid]

All Lines challenge makes it kinda mandatory.

[The Orange One]

All Lines challenge makes it kinda mandatory.

I'd forgotten the existence of the All Lines challenge. Yes, I suppose it does. I've never thought of the All Lines challenge as a tube challenge in the same way, given that the aim is to visit lines, not stations - I believe it's unique in this way.

[TC95]

Hoping this hasn't yet been thought of...

The aim of the Termini Challenge is to visit all the London Underground Termini - in most cases they will be at the ends of branches. Visiting is defined as per usual - either arrive or depart by train - with a twist. The train must be a terminating service - Barking must be visited by H&C, Stratford must be visited by Jubilee, Elephant and Castle by Bakerloo.

You need not visit stations such as Stonebridge Park or Seven Sisters - although trains commonly terminate there, these are just short workings.

...

Woodford must be visited through the Hainault loop though as this is a completely different part of the Central. Likewise Heathrow T123 must be visited through T4.

...

This should give a nice opportunity to think of some interesting new connections!

You beat me to it by just over half a year, just thought up a similar idea this morning. I wouldn't include Hainault, Kensington (Olympia), HSK or Heathrow T4, just the traditional line extremities. Also I would say that you must arrive or depart each termini by LU train and the Drain is optional. I'm considering attempting this late March/April

[tractakid]

You beat me to it by just over half a year, just thought up a similar idea this morning. I wouldn't include Hainault, Kensington (Olympia), HSK or Heathrow T4, just the traditional line extremities. Also I would say that you must arrive or depart each termini by LU train and the Drain is optional. I'm considering attempting this late March/April

I would consider Olympia a clear cut terminus. Not a borderline case at all in my opinion, let alone a station to be excluded!

I would probably define terminus as 'a station that is only adjacent to one other London Underground station', but others may well disagree.

[Iain]

I'd probably define it along the lines of "a station at the end of a line or branch of a line"

That allows for things like Woodford, E&C etc

I guess that raises questions about T4, it's not at the end of a line, although it is where a service terminates.

[tractakid]

I'd probably define it along the lines of "a station at the end of a line or branch of a line"

That allows for things like Woodford, E&C etc

I guess that raises questions about T4, it's not at the end of a line, although it is where a service terminates.

I choose my definition because it is very clear cut.

[The Orange One]

I think Iain's definition is my favourite. It would not have HSK, but that's fine. As regards the T4 dilemma, there's three possibilities, depending on how you look at it:

1) Terminates at T4, as that's where the train stands and the driver takes his break
2) Terminates at T123, as that's where the train is advertised as terminating
3) Terminates at Cockfosters/Arnos Grove, as that's where they sweep the train to get rid of rubbish

tractakid's definition is clear cut though!

[Iain]

I'd probably define it along the lines of "a station at the end of a line or branch of a line"

That allows for things like Woodford, E&C etc

I guess that raises questions about T4, it's not at the end of a line, although it is where a service terminates.

I choose my definition because it is very clear cut.

It's pretty clear cut, but it doesn't describe my idea of a terminus. If I wanted to be pedantic I might ask what "adjacent" means.

Re HSK: I've seen it as a separate branch on some line diagrams.

[Going Underground]

I am not sure he ever posted an actual topic but ping pon came up with this idea sometime ago....


http://www.tubeforum.co.uk/forum/index. ... =viewtopic

[The Orange One]

Regards the HT4 dilemma:

I think we should enforce it as HT4. If it does happen to be HT123, we would end up visiting it anyway from HT5. If it happens to be Cockfosters, we'll end up visiting Cockfosters anyway.

[TC95]

You beat me to it by just over half a year, just thought up a similar idea this morning. I wouldn't include Hainault, Kensington (Olympia), HSK or Heathrow T4, just the traditional line extremities. Also I would say that you must arrive or depart each termini by LU train and the Drain is optional. I'm considering attempting this late March/April.

I would consider Olympia a clear cut terminus. Not a borderline case at all in my opinion, let alone a station to be excluded!

I would probably define terminus as 'a station that is only adjacent to one other London Underground station', but others may well disagree.

Sorry, I was in a rush for a lecture earlier and I didn't get time to properly explain my logic regarding Olympia, T4 and my interpretation of line termini.

For a train's destination to be regarded as a terminus (in my opinion) it must be at the end of a line, I.e. Aldgate, Barking or Waterloo, and it must also have a frequent service. Despite T4 technically being a place where trains terminate, it is not strictly speaking the end of a line. T4 would have to be debated by I believe T4 would fit into the Rayners Lane, Baker Street and White City type of LU terminus. Regarding Olympia, yes it is a clear cut, end of a line terminus, but it only sees trains terminating on a fairly infrequent basis, only on weekends, public holidays or some Olympia events does Olympia get used as an Underground terminus. It would be impossible to arrive/depart Olympia by LU train on weekdays unless a special service was operating due to the current District line service patterns. The same logic of trains terminating at stations on an infrequent basis can be applied to terminating stations due to engineering works like Finchley Road for Jubilee line, South Harrow for Piccadilly line and Harrow-on-the-Hill for Metropolitan line. For Kensington (Olympia) to be included, an exception of the 'arrive and/or depart by LU train' rule would need to be implemented. If the amendment works, I would be happy to include Olympia in the TC.

[The Orange One]

There's always the definition of terminus "a station where a track ends directly adjacent to a platform", which would mean:

Willesden Junction (low level platform 2)
Baker Street (Met)
Greenford (FGW)
Ealing Broadway (Cen, Dis)
Bank (W&C)
Stratford (Jub, DLR)
Hammersmith (H&C, Cir)
Moorgate (Thameslink, FCC, H&C, Cir)
Aldgate (Met)
Mansion House (Cir, Dis)
High Street Kensington (Oly)
Richmond (LO, Dis)
Kensington Olympia (Dis)
Parsons Green (Dis southbound)
Putney Bridge (Dis)
Wimbledon (Dis)
Plaistow (Dis west)
Barking (LO)
Dagenham East (Dis)
Upminster (Romford)
Neasden (Met/Jub siding)
Stanmore (Jub)
Chesham (Met)
Chalfont and Latimer (Chesham shuttle)
Rickmansworth (platform 3)
Watford (Met)
Uxbridge (Met, Pic)
Edgware (Nor)
High Barnet (Nor)
Cockfosters (Pic)

Quite a different selection from what you'd expect!