Random 15 Championship 2010/11 - Round One

[Soup Dragon]

7 is a pretty poor turnout for the first round and would have hoped that at least 10 people would be able to make the first round.
The NOT votes are put in there for balance so people can vote for days that are 100% out for them. For me personally I can make the 7th and 14th so voted positively for these, but the 21st and 28th I wont be in the UK so voted negatively for these dates. I hope that everyone who is voting is actually taking part in the R15's otherwise it does make the poll pointless.

If someone wants to go ahead and organise the 21st August go ahead and be my guest.

If not then I suggest we go with the scedule:
September
November
January
March
April
June

[JoeGJ1984]

I agree that it would be a poor turnout and I think moving it to September is the best bet (also good that having the rounds every other month will miss out December, which I think it might be difficult to get a turnout because of Christmas - people may have other things lined up around Christmas). I think the best thing to do now would be to start a poll for September. I'm still dubious about the value of the NOT votes; I can see somebody thinking 'I can do all of the dates but this one, therefore I'll vote NOT for the date I can't make', which means that he/she might make no 'positive' votes, thus leaving a small number for any specific date, whereas otherwise he/she might vote for all the other dates. Also, if somebody could make all the dates, he/she might not bother voting but wait until the date is decided and still turn up.

As for my voting, I have something else lined up for the 28th August, and I looked at Wrexham and Shropshire's website and saw that the 7th August had engineering works which might mean that my train might come in later (as it is, they since released the timetable and it doesn't make that much difference, but they tend to say 'timetable to follow' until a few days before the day. One time it meant a 12.15 arrival instead of 11.15), but the 14th and 21st August were clear of engineering works. So I voted for the 14th and 21st, and NOT the 28th (as it was the one I definitely couldn't do, and I would have preferred not to do the 7th as I explained above, so I didn't vote for it specifically, but didn't vote NOT for the 7th).

Anyway, I think the best course of action would be now to start a poll for all the Saturdays in September (hopefully it will be after the summer season, which might have explained the low numbers in August). I toyed with the idea of including the 17th August in addition, but as Soup Dragon won't be around on that day, it's probably not such a good idea. It's up to the BERC, but I personally would leave the NOT votes out, as people might only use them and not vote positively for any dates. I'd get the poll going now (perhaps alter the poll on this thread) so people can get notice of the event.

[greatkingrat]

If we move the R15 back to September, does anyone fancy doing a different challenge in August?

The SLAM (South London All Modes) was going to be part of the Winter Olympics but had to be changed due to engineering works. It looks like the SLAM will be possible on either 14th or 21st August so maybe we could make the inaugural attempt?

http://www.tubeforum.co.uk/forum/viewto ... f=4&t=1076

[Soup Dragon]

I would agree with Peter that it would be a good idea to go for the SLAM challenge on 14th or 21st August. I will leave that for someone else to arrange, in the meantime I shall re-poll the options for September for R15 Round One.

[jamesthegill]

I'm up for (or down with, depending on your slang) a SLAM challenge on the 14th provided we can start wherever we want - I'm based near Silvertown that day and don't fancy trekking across to Kew/Richmond to start!

[Sam]

I'm working the 14th, depending on start time *may* be able to make 21st....

[Going Underground]

14th August is out for me but could be enticed into a SLAM if on the 21st, but if the 14th is better for most then go with that...

I like the NO vote for example the 14th and 28th were definetly out for me and as previously raised by Ollie "The most popular is not necessarily the most populous"
I think the vote helps towards avoiding this scenario

[greatkingrat]

Seems to work fine. There are some stations that need to be separated out.

Shepherd's Bush should be 2 stations (Cent+LO)
West Hampstead should be 3 stations (Jub+LO+NR)
Shadwell should be 2 stations (LO+DLR)
Canary Wharf should be 2 stations (Jub+DLR)

These are fairly clear cut but then we will start getting to the more difficult questions like exactly how many stations they are in the Kings Cross area!

P.S. You also need to add every bus stop in London for the future R15 bus challenge.

[JoeGJ1984]

Seems to work fine. There are some stations that need to be separated out.

Shepherd's Bush should be 2 stations (Cent+LO)
West Hampstead should be 3 stations (Jub+LO+NR)
Shadwell should be 2 stations (LO+DLR)
Canary Wharf should be 2 stations (Jub+DLR)

These are fairly clear cut but then we will start getting to the more difficult questions like exactly how many stations they are in the Kings Cross area!

P.S. You also need to add every bus stop in London for the future R15 bus challenge.

I agree with all those - this needs to be done before this R15 including the London Overground. The more difficult ones involve National Rail - this is less important at the moment - the more urgent thing is to get it ready for the LO round which hopefully will take place in September. One obvious one involving National Rail though is Elephant and Castle - split into Underground and National Rail stations.

A bit of an aside from the generator: I was looking at a couple of London Overground sections where the same tracks are served also by other National Rail trains - by the GWR rules, these other trains should be allowed to be used in lieu of LO (so long as the train stops at the station or is scheduled to stop). We established when the SLAM rules were published for the Tube Winter Olympics (which never took place) that for the WLL the Southern trains are allowed to be used, including at Clapham Junction, even though they have different platforms (same situation for the GWR at Richmond where District and LO services use different platforms but I think the LO services can still be used to visit Richmond). (However, the Southern services do not call at Willesden Junction).

For the ELL, south of New Cross Gate, the tracks are shared with Southern services, so again they can be used for Brockley (further south is going out of zone 2 into zone 3). What about New Cross Gate though? A look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Cross_ ... ay_station shows that northbound LO and Southern services share the same platform, but southbound LO and Southern services use different platforms (they are either side of an island platform though).

For consistency, in summary, I think the use of Southern services (so long as they are scheduled to stop) should be allowed in both directions at New Cross Gate and Brockley, and between Shepherd's Bush and Clapham Junction inclusive on the WLL. I think this needs a ruling from the BERC though.

[Sam]

I disagree, as it is London Overground stations, it should be London Overground services used to reach these stations.....

[JoeGJ1984]

I disagree, as it is London Overground stations, it should be London Overground services used to reach these stations.....

We should stick to the GWR rules as much as possible, and using trains that run on the same rails is allowed in the FNC (examples where they might be used is running from Chiswick Park to Gunnersbury and taking an LO train to Richmond or getting an LO train from H&W to Queen's Park then changing onto the Bakerloo line - I'm sure somebody somewhere must have found an LO or Silverlink train at H&W to be the first available and used it, changing at Queen's Park - these are legitimate tactics). So I think the use of Southern services sharing the same routes as LO should be allowed (even if they do go to different platforms at the end of the shared section). (And as an aside, for a regular R15 without twists, I'd have thought it legitimate to use an LO train on the Watford DC Line in lieu of a Bakerloo line train north of Queen's Park).

[Sam]

And i'll pack my fishing rod away

[Edgemaster]

Seems to work fine. There are some stations that need to be separated out.

Shepherd's Bush should be 2 stations (Cent+LO)

Agreed

West Hampstead should be 3 stations (Jub+LO+NR)

Again, agreed

Shadwell should be 2 stations (LO+DLR)

Yup

Canary Wharf should be 2 stations (Jub+DLR)

Yup

These are fairly clear cut but then we will start getting to the more difficult questions like exactly how many stations they are in the Kings Cross area!

P.S. You also need to add every bus stop in London for the future R15 bus challenge.

Well, most of those will be easy fixes... (I didn't personally compile most of the list, I only added in the ELL stations...)

[Edgemaster]

Ok, now split up that list of stations.

They'll be up whenever Matt does his thing!

[greatkingrat]

Only problem I can see is West Hampstead Thameslink is down as an Overground station rather than a NR station.