On 2 December 2005, a new eastward branch, running along the southern side of the Royal Docks complex, opened from Canning Town to King George V, via London City Airport.
Quite a significant change.
This opens an interesting debate - if the configuration of, let's say, Zone 1, were to change, would the old records still stand? Ergo, does this guy's record stand for the DLR challenge?
In terms of the old DLR config of 34 stations TC has the record then, but the current record of 38 stations is with Tangy.
In regards to Z1, if this was to be reduced to 63 stations (say Vauxhall removed) then I would agree with Starkey and say somebody would actually have to improve on his time set for 64 stations, to morally be allowed to claim a record. However if Z1 were increased to 65 stations (say Stockwell added) then whatever time is first set would be the new Z1 record.
If Zone 1 is reduced to 63 stations then you can't have a time that was set for 64 stations as the record.
It's unfair on Starkey for a start because it may well be a lot easier to beat that time (if, say, Aldgate East was put into zone 2 only), in which case his record becomes meaningless.
GWR recognised every one of Bob Robinson's runs in the 80's when the system changed to more AND less stations so I don't see why we should arbitrarily decide that it's OK if the number of stations goes down, but a new record needs to be set if it goes up.
One thing only do I know, and that is that I know nothing - Socrates.
Champion of bugger all, 2004 to 2022
Member of sweet FA
if Z1 was to change in some way (more/less stations), then I doubt it would be too long before there'd be people attempting to get a new record. hell, we could even have a challenge day to celebrate.
anyway what i'm saying is what you're talking about is trivial and it little matters whether records still stand or not. saying that, if the number of stations reduced then starkeys record should stand until bettered because technically he visited all the stations in the new Z1 in that time. it just happens that that was along with the ones that get moved out to Z2.
hang on, are there actually any plans to move the zone boundries?
tubeguru wrote:Sorry, that's not right to my mind.
If Zone 1 is reduced to 63 stations then you can't have a time that was set for 64 stations as the record.
It's unfair on Starkey for a start because it may well be a lot easier to beat that time (if, say, Aldgate East was put into zone 2 only), in which case his record becomes meaningless.
GWR recognised every one of Bob Robinson's runs in the 80's when the system changed to more AND less stations so I don't see why we should arbitrarily decide that it's OK if the number of stations goes down, but a new record needs to be set if it goes up.
Good points raised here Mr Guru and think that you are correct.
So when the ELL is removed later this year (and as long as Guinness don't insist we take the bus) whoever gets out there and sets the first time for a 269 will have the new GWR even if it's slower than Hakan's time
Soup Dragon wrote:
Good points raised here Mr Guru and think that you are correct.
So when the ELL is removed later this year (and as long as Guinness don't insist we take the bus) whoever gets out there and sets the first time for a 269 will have the new GWR even if it's slower than Hakan's time
Soup Dragon wrote:
Good points raised here Mr Guru and think that you are correct.
So when the ELL is removed later this year (and as long as Guinness don't insist we take the bus) whoever gets out there and sets the first time for a 269 will have the new GWR even if it's slower than Hakan's time
YES! Now you're getting it.
When GWR stop pissing about with their stupid replacement bus rules and a piece of tube finally disappears without the need to use a bus route instead, then so far as I am concerned it is a "new" record to get.
Whether GWR actually accept it is another matter.
They appear to have lost the plot with regard to this record in recent years.
One thing only do I know, and that is that I know nothing - Socrates.
Champion of bugger all, 2004 to 2022
Member of sweet FA
Soup Dragon wrote:
Good points raised here Mr Guru and think that you are correct.
So when the ELL is removed later this year (and as long as Guinness don't insist we take the bus) whoever gets out there and sets the first time for a 269 will have the new GWR even if it's slower than Hakan's time :?:
That is silly. When Hakan set his record he visited every one of those 269 stations. So if I make an attempt the day after the ELL closes in 19 hrs that is not a record because Hakan has visited all 269 stations in a quicker time.
I beg to disagree with the esteemed Tubeguru on this occasion. Let's say that Vauxhall and Pimlico are removed from Zone 1. Someone then sets a time of, say, 2:45'00" for the remaining Zone 1 stations. Under Tubeguru's recommendations, they are awarded the record. However there's someone out there (me) who actually physically visited those sixty-two remaining stations (and of course two others) in a time of (at most) 2'43'50". This means that the new record holder has a hollow victory, because they are therefore only the second fastest person for those sixty-two stations.
Tubeguru's 90m and 100m analogy works up to a point. But if someone's run 100m in, say 9.85 seconds, then in particular they've run 90m (and indeed any other lesser distance) in 9.85 seconds. And unless someone else runs 90m in less than 9.85 seconds, the first person is still by definition the fastest. I suppose that it's different with athletics because that's very formal; the track is all laid out and measured and so on. But the great thing about the Zone 1 record is that anyone can do it at any point (and potentially be on multiple attempts at once if they're going round and round on a circular route for several hours).
I don't mean to sound like I'm getting sour grapes! But my mathematical mind will have a go at me if I don't post this...
Starkey - I agree with you 100% - that far. However, if you have an arrival time at Sloane Square (supposing you had a "standard finish") recorded from your recent record run (or even worse, argue a worst case time assumption), would you say that this split time should be the record if Pimlico and Vauxhall are removed?
BTW Does anyone remember the javelin world record holder from before they changed the balance of the javelin?
Three times Zone 1 Challenge winner Official record holder in the 2008 Guinness Book of Records, pg 199
If Starkey's record was set by starting or finishing at Vauxhall, and he has logged all the times for that record, he can just subtract the bit between Vauxhall and Pimlico .
I think you could just rebrand records. In cycling a few years ago you could set records by going to altitude and wearing all manner of aerodynamic kit. Now to set an 'athletes' record you have to go to sea level and not wear loads of aero kit. If zone 1 got changed (and there were rumours of Z1 going beyond NHG) then you would have to start again, with the current Z1 going down as a record set under old conditions.
Three times Zone 1 Challenge winner 