Tidal Thames Trial

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The Orange One
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Tidal Thames Trial

Post by The Orange One » 13 Apr 2016, 23:33

I'm not entirely sure whether this should go in here or in Non-LU Challenges, as it's quite a bit more varied than the standard LU Challenge. If people feel this should be moved to Non-LU Challenges, leave a note for tubeguru to do so.

This challenge has cropped up before, in various variants, but I thought I should set out an entry for the whole thing. It's basically crossing the Thames at every crossing between Teddington Lock and the mouth of the river in the fastest time possible (any order, of course), but it would be better to make a comprehensive list. From Teddington to the mouth as follows, here are the 56 possible crossings:

- Teddington Lock Footbridge (free)
- Hammerton's Ferry (£1 cash, if boat is not on your side of the river, wave and they'll come and pick you up)
- Richmond Bridge (free on foot, also possible on TfL buses 33, 490, H22, H37, R68, R70 and N22)
- Richmond Railway Bridge (South West Trains between Richmond and St. Margaret's)
- Twickenham Bridge (free)
- Richmond Lock Footbridge (free)
- Kew Bridge (free on foot, also possible on TfL buses 65 and 391)
- Kew Railway Bridge (District Line and London Overground between Gunnersbury and Kew Gardens)
- Chiswick Bridge (free on foot, also possible on TfL bus 190)
- Barnes Railway Bridge (free on foot, also possible on South West Trains between Barnes Bridge and Chiswick)
- Hammersmith Bridge (free on foot, also possible on TfL buses 33, 72, 209, 283, 419 and 485)
- Putney Bridge (free on foot, also possible on TfL buses 14, 22, 39, 74, 85, 93, 220, 265, 270, 424, 430, N22 and N74)
- Fulham Railway Bridge (free on foot, also possible on District Line between Putney Bridge and East Putney)
- Wandsworth Bridge (free on foot, also possible on TfL buses 28, 295, C3 and N28)
- Battersea Railway Bridge (London Overground and Southern between Imperial Wharf and Clapham Junction)
- Battersea Bridge (free on foot, also possible on TfL buses 19, 49, 170, 319, 345, N19 and N31)
- Albert Bridge (free)
- Chelsea Bridge (free on foot, also possible on TfL buses 44, 137, 452, N44 and N137)
- Grosvenor Railway Bridge (Southern, Southeastern and Gatwick Express between Victoria and the first stop out)
- Victoria Line (Victoria Line between Pimlico and Vauxhall)
- Vauxhall Bridge (free on foot, also possible on TfL buses 2, 36, 87, 88, 185, 360, 436, N2, N87 and N136)
- Lambeth Bridge (free on foot, also possible on TfL buses 3, 507, C10 and N3)
- Westminster Bridge (free on foot, also possible on TfL buses 12, 53, 148, 159, 211, 453, N109, N155 and N381)
- Jubilee Line 1 (Jubilee Line between Westminster and Waterloo)
- Bakerloo Line (Bakerloo Line between Embankment and Waterloo)
- Golden Jubilee/Hungerford Bridges (free on foot, also possible on Southeastern between Charing Cross and Waterloo East)
- Northern Line 1 (Northern Line between Embankment and Waterloo)
- Waterloo Bridge (free on foot, also possible on TfL buses 1, 4, 26, 59, 68, 76, 139, 168, 171, 172, 176, 188, 243, 341, 521, RV1, X68, N1, N68, N171 and N343)
- Waterloo and City Line (Waterloo and City Line between Bank and Waterloo)
- Blackfriars Bridge (free on foot, also possible on TfL buses 45, 63, 100, N63 and N89)
- Blackfriars Railway Bridge (see instructions below)
- Millennium Bridge (free)
- Southwark Bridge (free on foot, also possible on TfL bus 344)
- Cannon Street Railway Bridge (Southeastern between Cannon Street and London Bridge)
- London Bridge (free on foot, also possible on TfL buses 17, 21, 35, 40, 43, 47, 48, 133, 141, 149, 344, 521, N21, N35, N133 and N199)
- Northern Line 2 (Northern Line between Bank and London Bridge)
- Tower Bridge (free on foot, also possible on TfL buses 42, 78 and RV1)
- Thames Tunnel (London Overground between Wapping and Rotherhithe)
- Rotherhithe Tunnel (free, must be done on foot while wearing appropriate safety gear - cloth over nose and mouth)
- Hilton Docklands Ferry (Thames Clippers East Zone - discounts available with Oyster PAYG and with TfL travelcard, but must be booked beforehand online for the latter discount. Paper tickets also available)
- Jubilee Line 2 (Jubilee Line between Canary Wharf and Canada Water)
- Docklands Light Railway 1 (Docklands Light Railway between Island Gardens and Cutty Sark)
- Greenwich Foot Tunnel (free)
- Jubilee Line 3 (Jubilee Line between Canary Wharf and North Greenwich)
- Blackwall Tunnel Northbound (TfL bus 108 towards Stratford)
- Blackwall Tunnel Southbound (TfL bus 108 towards Lewisham)
- Trinity Buoy Wharf Ferry (between Trinity Buoy Wharf and North Greenwich Pier, £2 cash, if boat is not on your side of the river phone 07947637925 and they'll pick you up)
- Jubilee Line 4 (Jubilee Line between Canning Town and North Greenwich)
- Boris Johnson's Dangleway (discounts available with Oyster PAYG, paper tickets also available)
- Woolwich Foot Tunnel (free)
- Woolwich Free Ferry (free, duh)
- Docklands Light Railway 2 (Docklands Light Railway between King George V and Woolwich Arsenal)
- Dartford Tunnels (Ensignbus X80 towards Chafford Hundred)
- Cross Bridge (if Crossrail is becoming the Elizabeth Line then the Elizabeth Bridge must become Cross Bridge, surely? Ensignbus X80 towards Bluewater)
- High Speed 1 (Southeastern between Stratford International and Ebbsfleet International or Eurostar services from St Pancras International - special fares apply)
- Tilbury to Gravesend Ferry (£3.50 cash)

I'm not entirely sure whether to keep the last 4 - each and every one of them is a pain in the neck and they're not in Greater London anyway! Anyway, that's 5 bridges to do on foot, 16 bridges to do either on foot or on a bus, 3 tunnels to be done by bus, 1 bridge to be done by bus, 3 tunnels to be done by foot, 8 rail bridges (2 of which can also be done on foot), 5 ferries, 13 rail tunnels, 1 cable car and Blackfriars Railway Bridge, where you must do one of the following:

- Enter Blackfriars Rail station at the southern entrance, exit at the northern (and vice versa)
- Travel on Thameslink or Southeastern from Elephant and Castle (or London Bridge or further south) to Blackfriars, exiting at the northern entrance (and vice versa)
- Travel on Thameslink from City Thameslink to Blackfriars, exiting at the southern entrance (and vice versa)
- Travel on Thameslink from City Thameslink to Elephant and Castle (or further south and vice versa)

Other rules include:
- If you are crossing a bridge on foot, you must clear the bridge on each side
- If you are traversing a tunnel on foot, you must ascend to the surface on each side
- You may not alight or board a bus halfway across a bridge (applies to London, Blackfriars, Waterloo, Westminster, Vauxhall and Putney Bridges)
- When using a ferry, in addition to crossing you must stand with both feet on the relevant pier/jetty/quay/wharf at each side of the river

These restrictions are simply here to sidestep making a cumbersome definition for each crossing.

Obviously, the challenge is about the length of a day, even without the easternmost four crossings (probably because of all the fiddling around in West London). Worth discussing anyway?
Last edited by The Orange One on 15 May 2016, 13:42, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Tidal Thames Trial

Post by tractakid » 14 Apr 2016, 01:56

Rotherhithe tunnel is horrible. I've ticked it off now and I'm never going in there again!
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Re: Tidal Thames Trial

Post by RJSRdg » 14 Apr 2016, 07:28

I'm not quite sure what the 'Borismaster' rule's all about....

Also, when does the clock stop? As soon as you clear the bridge,or at the next disembarking station/bus stop if the last bridge is done on public transport?
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Re: Tidal Thames Trial

Post by The Orange One » 14 Apr 2016, 09:15

Dammit, knew I'd still have a hole I couldn't close!! Borismaster rule is my paranoia, removing it now. OK...

If you're on a road bridge, clock stops when you've passed the building line on the other side. If you're crossing by train/bus/Dangleway, you have to alight at the first stop after the crossing has been fully cleared, and that's where the clock stops if you finish there. If you're crossing by ferry, clock stops when you set foot on the pier on the other side. If you finish with a foot tunnel clock stops when there's no building or tunnel directly above your head.

That OK?
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Re: Tidal Thames Trial

Post by tubeguru » 14 Apr 2016, 09:17

Moved into non-LU challenges, as it's not a LU-only challenge.
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Re: Tidal Thames Trial

Post by RJSRdg » 14 Apr 2016, 17:31

The Orange One wrote:
If you're on a road bridge, clock stops when you've passed the building line on the other side. If you're crossing by train/bus/Dangleway, you have to alight at the first stop after the crossing has been fully cleared, and that's where the clock stops if you finish there. If you're crossing by ferry, clock stops when you set foot on the pier on the other side. If you finish with a foot tunnel clock stops when there's no building or tunnel directly above your head.

That OK?
That's what I thought... finishing in Lille,Paris or Brussels could add quite a bit of time on! As you can't disembark (or at least not leave the station) from an eastbound Eurostar at Ashford, I assume that doesn't count....
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Re: Tidal Thames Trial

Post by The Orange One » 14 Apr 2016, 17:55

I'd have thought you'd be looking at Southeastern services from Stratford International to Gravesend!!

Indeed, I'd suggest the starting bit is done as follows:

0637 X80 bus from Lakeside Tesco to Galleon Boulevard (QEII Bridge)
0707 X80 bus from Galleon Boulevard to Chafford Hundred station (Dartford Tunnels)
0744 Chafford Hundred to Tilbury Town
RUN to Tilbury Riverside (if you can do it in 9 minutes you'll be up a boat)
0800/0830 Tilbury to Gravesend Ferry
RUN to Gravesend Station (trains at 0812, 0822, 0842, 0912...)
Train to Stratford International.

If this were done as a challenge day, I'd relax the bus requirement for the Dartfords. Start at Premier Inn Thurrock at 0515 with all challengers in a minibus or van, go over the bridge, through the tunnel, drive to Tilbury Riverside and park up for the 0550 ferry. Arrive Gravesend Pier at 0555, all walk up to the station, board the 0612 to Stratford International. Then all go your separate ways!
Last edited by The Orange One on 14 Apr 2016, 18:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tidal Thames Trial

Post by Tube Geek » 14 Apr 2016, 18:07

Personally, I think the last 3 should be ignored
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Re: Tidal Thames Trial

Post by The Orange One » 14 Apr 2016, 18:09

*last 4, surely? No reason to do Southbound Dartford and not Northbound Dartford!

As I said, a compromise should probably be reached with a planned starting sequence before we're all let loose at Stratford International at 0629.
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Re: Tidal Thames Trial

Post by Tube Geek » 14 Apr 2016, 18:11

No, 3;

Tilbury - Gravesend ferry
HS1
Elizabeth (Cross) Bridge
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Re: Tidal Thames Trial

Post by The Orange One » 14 Apr 2016, 18:22

So you'd leave out QEII Bridge (A282 North to South), but leave in Dartford Tunnels (A282 South to North)?

Personally, I think all crossings should be completed (they are like the Cheshams of the Thames), but I acknowledge that the Dartfords are a nightmare (and so is the Tilbury Ferry)!! That's why I put together the communal start (saves on crossing costs at Dartford as well), before everyone is dispatched at the still fairly early hour of half past six in the morning at a major transport interchange. We would need a minibus/van though...
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Re: Tidal Thames Trial

Post by Tube Geek » 14 Apr 2016, 18:27

But then surely you would have to do them all until the source of the river! I think all of the bridges between (and including) Richmond and the Dartfords
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Re: Tidal Thames Trial

Post by The Orange One » 14 Apr 2016, 18:37

The challenge is called the TIDAL Thames Trial. West of Teddington Lock, the Thames is not tidal. Simple :D

Teddington Lock is a natural western end point. As for the eastern end, it was either the DLR at Woolwich (making it a London challenge - the western end would have to be tweaked to include Kingston) or follow natural laws and go the way to the mouth (last crossing point at Tilbury).
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Re: Tidal Thames Trial

Post by Tube Geek » 14 Apr 2016, 18:40

I suppose it would make sense as a TIDAL challenge! I missed that, though! :D
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Re: Tidal Thames Trial

Post by Tube Geek » 14 Apr 2016, 22:10

I definitely think this would be a good mass event, as there are lots of possibilities, particularly in the centre. Sometime in July?!!
Last edited by Tube Geek on 15 Apr 2016, 05:03, edited 1 time in total.
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