Got a possible route - slight timetable problem

[spoogie37]

Just worked out a route which, when the segments are all fed into the TFL Journey Planner, comes to 18 hours 23 minutes (12 minutes INSIDE the record) - or would do but for one thing.

My train round the Hainault loop gets into Woodford a minute after an Epping train leaves. If the train were to manage to get into Woodford that one or two minutes earlier, then the time for the whole route would come in as above.

However, if I get into Woodford as per the timetable its a seven minute wait for the next Epping train, which also causes some long waits further on in the route, with the result that I end up about half and hour outside
the record.

UURGH!!!

[CrunchySaviour]

The inherent inaccuracies of the whole process will mean that you almost certainly won't catch that particular train. The Tube will definitely not run like the Journey Planner says it will, and you will end up catching later or earlier trains. Don't plan on catching a specific train, but cover eventualities should you be later or earlier arriving at the loop.

[tpfkar]

Hi spoogie37. Like Crunchy says, I wouldn't assume that a route is good just because it looks good on the tfl journey planner. In my experience, I always lose time on the 'theoretical time' from the journey planner.

However, I do have a suggestion: Are you a good runner? If you are, you could peg it down the hill from Buckhurst Hill to Roding Valley, which might just save you that minute.

[G Force]

You are extremely unlikely to find the Central Line running early due to its automatic train control system. If a train arrives early at a station, the train won't be allowed to depart until it is on time.

Other lines with conventional signalling are only regulated at certain stations, and quite often can run early.

For example, it's quite common for a train to wait outside Epping for the train platform 1 to depart, even though platform 2 is empty. This tends to prevent any fast direction changes at Epping for tube challengers.

[hwolge]

The Hainault-Woodford-Epping connection is interesting. During most of the day there is a 3 minute change time in Woodford - perfect. But for instance between 4pm and 6pm this is not true...

So it can be vital to do Epping between 11am and 4pm.

Maybe you can change a couple of segments around?

BTW - the best route I've found according to the JourneyPlanner (allowing for minimum change time of 1 minute) was significantly faster than 18:23, but I won't tell you this route... It resembles the one we tried last Tuesday - with some crucial changes - that *could* had been done in 18:25.

[spoogie37]

Thanks for the suggestions - interesting point about being at this part of the system between 11am and 4pm. I'm not that good a runner, but I am thinking about running from Buckhurst Hill to Roading Valley (or vice versa: are we saying that from Buckhurst HIll is DOWNHILL?).

In fact recently I put together a route usign Journey Planner and last week I did try out some of it, starting from where my route would be about 10:45am (starting from Reading at 9:30am so I could use a cheap ticket), going on until about 4:30pm. Sometimes I was behind the plan and sometimes ahead of it but believe it or not at 4:30 I was at exactly the point predicated by the plan.

A few days later I carried on, starting at the point I'd left off at 4:30, going on until 8:30, and found myself fifteen mins behind the plan - almost all attributable to the train standing at Roding Valley for an inordinately long time and thus affecting connections further along the route (apparently someone was taken ill on a Central Line train that afternoon)

That route would have put me half hour outside the record, so I made some revisions - and it was the situation when the revised route reached the Hainault loop (I have yet to try this route in the field so to speak) that prompted the original query.

General point: how far inside the record should the 'theoretical' Journey Planner time be, for there to be a reasonable chance that the route will be a record breaking one when attempted for real please?

Thanks

[hwolge]

I think that if you allow at least 1 minute per change in the theoretical plan, I'd say 15-20 minutes margin give you a 50-50 chance of actually beating the record... (Not taking serious disruptions into consideration - only minor everyday delays)

Then again, it's important not to have say, a Mill Hill East connection with minimum (1 min) margin, while a Central or Piccadilly line train in the middle of the day can easily do with a 1 min margin or even 0 margin. In the end it all comes down to serious mathematical statistics...

[standclearofthedoors]

From what I've seen, I'd say around 50 minutes...

[hwolge]

So you mean you need a 17:45 theoretical to beat the record? The 1 minute minimum margin adds around 50-60 minutes to the theoretical plan - so I'd say if you go for 0 margin in the theoretical you will probably need 60-70 minutes total margin for a 50-50 chance...

[tpfkar]

I think you should look for a theoretical time of under 18 hours, but even with 18:34 if everything works perfectly, you're in...

And as for doing the run backwards, the clue's in the place names:

roding VALLEY and buckhurst HILL
I know which way I'd rather do it...

[spoogie37]

I think you should look for a theoretical time of under 18 hours, but even with 18:34 if everything works perfectly, you're in...

And as for doing the run backwards, the clue's in the place names:

roding VALLEY and buckhurst HILL
I know which way I'd rather do it...

Perhaps I should learn to read - the original suggestion said DOWN the hill! Sorry, blonde moment (not that many girls on here - can I say that?). I see there is actually a bus that gets between the two in four minutes, but its only hourly, so its probably easier to find a Bactrian camel in the Gobi desert (watch Planet Earth if you don't know what I mean).

[geofftech]

I feel like I should mention at this point, that I did once try running between Buckhurst Hill and Roding Valley on a test day .. and that there is a sneaky footbridge somewhere that makes it another 20 seconds quicker.

And as we all know - 20 seconds can be the difference between making a train and not making it. And on the hainault loop -it's a 20 minutes wait for the next train!

Oh, happy memories of waiting for far flung Central Line trains ...

[standclearofthedoors]

I feel like I should mention at this point, that I did once try running between Buckhurst Hill and Roding Valley on a test day .. and that there is a sneaky footbridge somewhere that makes it another 20 seconds quicker.

And as we all know - 20 seconds can be the difference between making a train and not making it. And on the hainault loop -it's a 20 minutes wait for the next train!

Oh, happy memories of waiting for far flung Central Line trains ...

Now lets be honest- you didn't tell us that to be helpful, you said it to make yourself feel like a complete smartarse