East London Line replaced by buses for a few YEARS

sweek · Post by **sweek** » 20 Dec 2006, 21:17

It has been announced today that London Underground's East London Line will close on 23 December 2007, to permit its reconstruction into the new extended version (which won't be part of LU, though it will still come under TfL). The extended line will open in 2010; bustitution will apply for 2+ years. The year's notice is being given because some commuters have annual season tickets and they may wish to reconsider renewing them if they expire after 23 December 2006.

http://www.subchat.com/read.asp?Id=355232
http://diamondgeezer.blogspot.com/2006_ ... 1640164836

So how is that going to affect you guys?

barrykas · Post by **barrykas** » 20 Dec 2006, 22:54

Based on past decisions from GWR (Guinness World Records, as opposed to the Great Western Railway

) it wouldn't surprise me if they made people use the replacement bus, even though the line will NEVER reopen as part of LU!

Cheers,

Barry

geofftech · Post by **geofftech** » 20 Dec 2006, 23:31

I say it's going to be all dependent on how the ELL is represented on the map during this period.

For Shoreditch, GWR look at the tube map, saw the little black bus icon next to it and took the easy option of saying "Well if it's still on the map with a bus, then all challengers must take the bus".

I'm trying to remember what was on the map back in 1995 when orange buses replaced the whole line for several months while they did work on it - anyone?

So ... scarily, I wouldn't mind betting that the line stays on the map - greyed out or something - with bus replacement notices against the whole of it, and GWR will stipulate that the bus has to be taken for all of it.

If this happens, it will be utterly pointless doing all-275 challenges as no one will be able to beat the time having to do the whole of the ELL by bus.

But if (IF!) they show any common sense, and say "Ok... no East London Line", then it's down to 269 stations and the record it up for grabs! And it'll probably be possible to do sub 18-hours too.

Just my two cents ...

zeibura · Post by **zeibura** » 21 Dec 2006, 00:03

i'd hope they'll see that it's stupid expecting challengers to visit seven stations by bus on a TUBE CHALLENGE. one station, fine, doesn't make that much difference, but seven? they might aswell still have said we have to take the silverlink metro to watford junction, and the chiltern to aylesbury (as both are alternative services which replace london underground lines). so hopefully, they'll count the "east london line" as being CLOSED from that day, as it is.

and it'll be 268 btw, not 269. unless you're counting wood lane, in which case they shall have to reset the record anyway!

geofftech · Post by **geofftech** » 21 Dec 2006, 10:41

Eh? Currently 275.

Remove Shoreditch, Shadwell, Wapping, Rotherhithe, Surrey Quays, New Cross and New Cross Gate, and that comes out as .. oh! Bugger! 268.

jonny · Post by **jonny** » 21 Dec 2006, 16:41

Guys, I do disagree with what Guiness say about Shoreditch but (as I may have said before, sorry if Im repeating myself) there is some logic in it. The Shoreditch replacement bus is operated by LUL - not TfL, Silverlink or whatever, making it 'technically' part of the London Underground. When a bus is put on across the whole line, it will probably be London Underground again, although not being a train. This causes a conflict in the rules:

TRAVELLING THE LONDON UNDERGROUND IN THE SHORTEST TIME

1. All of the stations served by London Underground trains must be visited.

We'll just have to wait and see what they say anyway.

Going Underground · Post by **Going Underground** » 21 Dec 2006, 18:42

Zeibura wrote:i'd hope they'll see that it's stupid expecting challengers to visit seven stations by bus on a TUBE CHALLENGE. one station, fine, doesn't make that much difference, but seven? they might aswell still have said we have to take the silverlink metro to watford junction, and the chiltern to aylesbury (as both are alternative services which replace london underground lines). so hopefully, they'll count the "east london line" as being CLOSED from that day, as it is.

and it'll be 268 btw, not 269. unless you're counting wood lane, in which case they shall have to reset the record anyway!

Unfortunately Guinness don't see the "logic" in the situation or consider the inconvenience to the tube challenger........
They would probably expect you to take a "replacement" bus if it was 1 or 100 stations that were closed, be it permanent or temporary...
If it is operated by LUL that seems to be the onlt criteria of consideration they take into account...

tpfkar · Post by **tpfkar** » 21 Dec 2006, 19:57

2 thoughts:

1)rather than anyone writing individually to Guinness asking them their judgement, like happened with Shoreditch, there may be more clout in writing a public letter, signed by current/former world record holders and people who have made attempts in the past, requesting that the ELL not be included when it's a full bus service.

2)is this the most appropriate thread for this discussion?

Post by **tubeguru** » 21 Dec 2006, 21:50

Topic moved to appropriate seciton.

editorsfoot · Post by **editorsfoot** » 22 Dec 2006, 08:38

Greetings from not so sunny Denamrk.

From looking at the posters on the ELL the other night it talks about buses, there is also no guarantee that one bus will cover the entire route, it could well be one to Shoreditch, one Whitechapel to Canada Water, and one Canada Water to New Cross and New Cross Gate, or somewhere in between the two.

43019 · Post by **43019** » 06 Jan 2007, 21:23

So this would make doing an All Stations Challenge (apologies if there is another recognised term for it!) virtually impossible?

SELondoner · Post by **SELondoner** » 09 Jan 2007, 22:20

When the line closed in the 1990s for three years, two bus services were provided; one double deck route to get from the south into the City (it dropped you by Tower Hill/Tower Gateway), and another midibus which went through the (low headroom) Rotherhithe tunnel to the northern stations.

This would be very time consuming, especially adding on Shoreditch! A further complication is that Canada Water has since opened, so there are connections available there which may alter the bus service this time.

Nevertheless it's worth remembering that the ELL will close this year (assuming nothing changes, and I hope it will as I use this line every day!) and WILL NOT REOPEN. The lines will form part of the London Rail Overground service and the ELL will not be served by London Underground trains after December this year. However they probably would procure the bus service as with Shoreditch.

CrunchySaviour · Post by **CrunchySaviour** » 11 Jan 2007, 18:34

Oh, GOD. This is clearly going to prove an insurmountable hurdle if Guinness don't see sense.

I hope they realise, during their decision process, that there's no point in having a record if it's going to be IMPOSSIBLE to break for an unforeseeable number of years.

Going Underground · Post by **Going Underground** » 12 Jan 2007, 08:32

CrunchySaviour wrote:Oh, GOD. This is clearly going to prove an insurmountable hurdle if Guinness don't see sense.

I hope they realise, during their decision process, that there's no point in having a record if it's going to be IMPOSSIBLE to break for an unforeseeable number of years.

I feel a GWR planned attempt on Fri 21st Dec in that case

Post by **tubeguru** » 12 Jan 2007, 09:41

Not the best day given the weather and the Christmas shoppers, and that it's a Friday ...

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East London Line replaced by buses for a few YEARS

East London Line replaced by buses for a few YEARS

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