Full timetables...

[moley]

Timetables have been requested under FoIA before - It made the Metro.

However, this was before 7/7 - whether they (TfL) could get away with stating that it is now sensitive information and therefore refusing to issue - i dunno.

Also remember that they will charge and suitable admin fee.

[greatkingrat]

Well the form for requesting information from LU can be found at https://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/foi/contacts.asp so I suggest someone gives it a go!

[dr_chris]

They can't go and suggest that it's sensitive information when the information is available as part of JP anyway can they?!?

I'd be interested to see how published timetables constitute an increased risk of a terrorist threat in London...

[geofftech]

>Anyway, I've always considered consulting the timetables as "cheating".

Really Neil? And yet you didn't object to me having copies which we consulted and used!

I've got several old copies of WTT's - there's one for each line.

They're most handy when it comes to planning routes out in the extremeties - i.e. the Met line and the Central line. Mind you, they publish full timetables in a little booklet for everything beyond Rickmansworth.

But I did sit down one day and go through the Central line table working out if starting at Epping is actually a good idea or not. (It's not, becuase you still end up having to change trains a lot as the frequency isn't great at that time of the morning).

The Central one shows you the exact time that the hallowed 'Woodford via Hainault' trains are meant to run, as indeed the Northern shows you how frequent/when the trains from Morden that go via Charing Cross actually run.

Oh, and the District ... you get to see which train 'becomes' the Olympia service. ie you can get a train into Olympia that hasn't started at High St. Ken and vice versa.

[G Force]

Just use the Journey Planner to get the train times, which gives you all train times, but only accurate to the minute, instead of the half minute as per the WTT. Copying down a list of train times around the times in which you may be using that line, would use a lot less weight in your bag than having a copy of every WTT.

[Root]

I don't think having the full WTTs would be a huge advantage. JP gives you everything you need, and as G Force said, you can just extract the parts you think you will need. In my experience, most time is lost on the bus connections, which aren't timetabled as precisely most of the time.

[tubeguru]

Anyway, I've always considered consulting the timetables as "cheating".

Really Neil? And yet you didn't object to me having copies which we consulted and used!

Newsflash - man changes mind about something after the fact.

[dr_chris]

I think the only time we've found LU timetables to be any major use is for planning Mill Hill East, Olympia or Epping/Hainault connections. Everything else - running it through on JP gives a rough idea of expected times so that you can take half a dozen potential key connection times and ad-lib en route...

[Adham]

If looking at the timetables is cheating, then so is looking at the tube map, and so is having someone at Camden Town to tell you exactly when the next Mill Hill East train will arrive.

[hwolge]

I do it again (quote myself):

Example of things that could be made rules about are:
1) Using a computer en route (who wants to carry the extra weight, anyway?)
2) Using a mobile phone/walkie-talkie to obtain extra information from a support team.
3) Using a mobile phone at all (e.g. to get the content of ETA boards).
4) Bringing time tables, or other documents along.
5) Having a "point man" (in the support team) that delay trains by blocking doors...
6) Breaking any LU rules (e.g. running the wrong way through passage ways or blocking doors [yourselves]).
7) Breaking any (traffic) laws when moving between stations overground

Example of things that doesn't make an awful lot of sense to make rules about:
A) Using information not available to the public when planning (insider rule).
B) Use of pocket calculators or other tools to plan your route.
C) Use of caffein or other legal drugs during the attempt.
D) Getting paid for doing it (an amateur rule).
E) Having food or drink brought to you during the day by a support team.
F) Using a dust mask when travelling (it's a bit like using oxygen when climbing Mount Everest).

My personal view is that the only items even worth discussing would be points 5, 6 and 7 above. The rest are too obvious to everyone I hope.

Fortunately(?), it's entirely up to GWR to make the rules for the GWR.

Any comments?

[tubeguru]

If looking at the timetables is cheating, then so is looking at the tube map, and so is having someone at Camden Town to tell you exactly when the next Mill Hill East train will arrive.

No it's not - because the timetables aren't supposed to be available to the public. Tube maps and dot matrix displays ARE.

[nozzacook]

Wheather it is cheating or not I revieved this email

Our ref: 1599909

15/Aug/2006




Dear Mr Cook

Thank you for your email requesting printed timetables for all London
Underground services.

Unfortunately we don't produce printed timetables anymore. Rather than
running to a strict timetable we operate a Metro style service. By this I
mean we have a regular gap between trains.

The reason for this is because by having a scheduled timetable people rely
on certain trains so when delays occur a lot of people miss connections.
Where as the way we operate now it is much easier for us to regulate the
service after delays.

I'm sorry for any inconvenience caused by this. Please contact me again if
you need any help in the future.

Yours sincerely



Sam Thomas
Customer Service Advisor
Customer Service Centre

Oh well it was worth a try as it would of made great reference material.

[Root]

Of course they still produce timetables - I've seen drivers referring to them. Trouble is, you'd probably need a good lawyer to extract them from TfL's tightly clenched fists.

[greatkingrat]

Did you specifically ask for the working timetable or just for timetables generally?

[moley]

If you want them you will have to ask for them under the FOIA.