Evidence Requirements

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trains 500
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Re: Evidence Requirements

Post by trains 500 » 05 Mar 2021, 12:23

why do u need a log book witnesses and an independent adjudicator if it is all filmed. anyways is someone at guiness really going to watch 16hours worth of footage, i know we all have too much time on our hands but really?

nozzacook
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Re: Evidence Requirements

Post by nozzacook » 05 Mar 2021, 12:48

trains 500 wrote:
05 Mar 2021, 12:23
why do u need a log book witnesses and an independent adjudicator if it is all filmed. anyways is someone at guiness really going to watch 16hours worth of footage, i know we all have too much time on our hands but really?
That you would have to ask the powers that be at Guinness.

I know Andi had a battle with them over 1 missing photo of a station he had-to pass through which he had evidence of from pictures of the before and after stations.
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RJSRdg
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Re: Evidence Requirements

Post by RJSRdg » 05 Mar 2021, 20:26

Remember that as a fallback you can submit a Subject Access Request to TfL for CCTV footage (time stamped) from the station cameras (the train footage is wiped too quickly for it to be available that way).

However although by the strict letter of the law TfL have to release all the footage they have of you, it's best only to do it as a fallback for an occasional station where you've forgotten to take a photo, rather than trying to get it for all 270 stations - which would make a lot of work for them (as they have to physically visit each station to retrieve the footage) and would give Challenging a bad name.

As an experiment, in 2017 I asked them for all the footage of me visiting the 24 'Park' stations on that year's Park Challenge. They wrote back and asked me if I could cut the list down to 10 (which they're not supposed to do). I replied that as an Information Rights Officer myself I didn't want to make extra work for them, so cut the list down. They then sent me 15!
Last edited by RJSRdg on 09 Mar 2021, 23:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Steeevooo
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Re: Evidence Requirements

Post by Steeevooo » 05 Mar 2021, 22:20

True, but that does not solve the issue of the requirement to provide continuous video footage of the whole attempt!

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Sam
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Re: Evidence Requirements

Post by Sam » 09 Mar 2021, 14:51

nozzacook wrote:
05 Mar 2021, 11:04
ANDY_JS wrote:
05 Mar 2021, 02:07
The problem is most people would struggle to find someone willing to be an independent adjudicator to stand on the platform at Amersham, Heathrow, Upminster or Morden at 4:45 in the morning, which is apparently what you have to do to fulfil the official rules.

Also, are you supposed to film the whole thing these days, instead of just take a few photographs? You'd have to have a camera fixed on your shirt for 16 hours. Wouldn't the batteries run out?
Yes you now have to video whole attempt, photograph every station, keep a full log and get witness statements at least 1 per hour. And also have a person independent of the attempt to start/stop the master stopwatch which they are meant to look after for the duration of the attempt. This now makes solo attempts at the record almost impossible.

So the essential kit list now has to include 2 cameras, batteries and memory cards for both to enable continuous filming.
Video the whole attempt?! Jeez, the requirements seem way over the top these days and yes you're right, I can't see how anyone could do that alone.
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jrparkin
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Re: Evidence Requirements

Post by jrparkin » 09 Mar 2021, 14:59

Is it also true that the witnesses have to sign a separate book. So you also need two notebooks one for the journey log and one for witness statements. You can't for instance use one notebook for both or (as I believe was the practice in the past) use a simple piece of appropriately designed paper

Witnesses also have to write a letter to Guinness too

Just watch. In a few years they'll be like Netflix and have a list of approved cameras
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nozzacook
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Re: Evidence Requirements

Post by nozzacook » 09 Mar 2021, 15:11

jrparkin wrote:
09 Mar 2021, 14:59
Is it also true that the witnesses have to sign a separate book. So you also need two notebooks one for the journey log and one for witness statements. You can't for instance use one notebook for both or (as I believe was the practice in the past) use a simple piece of appropriately designed paper

Witnesses also have to write a letter to Guinness too

Just watch. In a few years they'll be like Netflix and have a list of approved cameras
I always had a separate book with pre-printed forms so witnesses just filled in a page. Guinness used to contact witnesses at random to check
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Re: Evidence Requirements

Post by roblo97 » 09 Mar 2021, 15:37

So if the battery life on a Go-Pro Hero 9*, filming in 1080p at 60 fps is 144 minutes, and the record is around the 16 hours 45 minutes mark, or 1005 minutes, you would need at least 7 fully charged batteries, maybe more and to film in 4k at 60fps, at least 14 batteries would be needed!
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EastActionWoman
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Re: Evidence Requirements

Post by EastActionWoman » 09 Mar 2021, 16:12

Sam wrote:
09 Mar 2021, 14:51

:D First and so far only female solo record holder!! :D
Bit of a derail ... but you need to change your signature, Sam 8)
Not a plus one :wink:
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Sam
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Re: Evidence Requirements

Post by Sam » 09 Mar 2021, 16:55

EastActionWoman wrote:
09 Mar 2021, 16:12
Sam wrote:
09 Mar 2021, 14:51

:D First and so far only female solo record holder!! :D
Bit of a derail ... but you need to change your signature, Sam 8)
You've held the GWR for a full network challenge alone?
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Steeevooo
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Re: Evidence Requirements

Post by Steeevooo » 09 Mar 2021, 17:26

jrparkin wrote:
09 Mar 2021, 14:59
Is it also true that the witnesses have to sign a separate book. So you also need two notebooks one for the journey log and one for witness statements. You can't for instance use one notebook for both or (as I believe was the practice in the past) use a simple piece of appropriately designed paper

Witnesses also have to write a letter to Guinness too

Just watch. In a few years they'll be like Netflix and have a list of approved cameras
It's advisable to have two books anyway - otherwise you run the risk of the witness filling out their details just as you arrive into a station and then subsequently either having to memorise the arrival/departure times or frantically reclaiming your book to note them down!

I'm not aware that witnesses have ever had to write a letter to Guinness though - only that they had to leave contact details so that Guinness could verify details with them at a later date if required.

EastActionWoman
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Re: Evidence Requirements

Post by EastActionWoman » 09 Mar 2021, 19:00

Sam wrote:
09 Mar 2021, 16:55
EastActionWoman wrote:
09 Mar 2021, 16:12
Sam wrote:
09 Mar 2021, 14:51

:D First and so far only female solo record holder!! :D
Bit of a derail ... but you need to change your signature, Sam 8)
You've held the GWR for a full network challenge alone?
Ah, I just have a solo alternative challenge record, not sure that stacks up against the FNC :D
Not a plus one :wink:
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Sam
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Re: Evidence Requirements

Post by Sam » 11 Mar 2021, 11:18

EastActionWoman wrote:
09 Mar 2021, 19:00
Sam wrote:
09 Mar 2021, 16:55
EastActionWoman wrote:
09 Mar 2021, 16:12
Sam wrote:
09 Mar 2021, 14:51

:D First and so far only female solo record holder!! :D
Bit of a derail ... but you need to change your signature, Sam 8)
You've held the GWR for a full network challenge alone?
Ah, I just have a solo alternative challenge record, not sure that stacks up against the FNC :D
Didn’t think so, so my signature still stands 8)
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EastActionWoman
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Re: Evidence Requirements

Post by EastActionWoman » 11 Mar 2021, 13:10

Sam wrote:
11 Mar 2021, 11:18
Didn’t think so, so my signature still stands 8)
And probably always will unless Paula Radcliffe takes up tube challenging :lol:
Not a plus one :wink:
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Sam
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Re: Evidence Requirements

Post by Sam » 11 Mar 2021, 13:16

EastActionWoman wrote:
11 Mar 2021, 13:10
Sam wrote:
11 Mar 2021, 11:18
Didn’t think so, so my signature still stands 8)
And probably always will unless Paula Radcliffe takes up tube challenging :lol:
I think the evidence requirements are too much to be able to do a solo attempt to be honest. It wasn't easy when I did it, but I had a good support team, and a lot of luck!
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