Could one train travel the entire tube network?

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TeamHelsinki
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Re: Could one train travel the entire tube network?

Post by TeamHelsinki » 02 May 2019, 20:49

This scenario has been nagging at me occasionally, so I finally decided to crunch the numbers. There are not that many options for the route, given that there is only one access point for many of the lines (Metropolitan/Jubilee at Wembley Park, Jubilee/Bakerloo at Baker St, Piccadilly/Victoria at Finsbury Pk, Piccadilly/Northern at Kings X, Metropolitan or Piccadilly/Central via Ruislip depot).

Here, first, is the route I used:
MET: Amersham - C&L - Chesham - Moor Pk - Watford - Wembley Pk
JUB: Wembley Pk - Stanmore - Stratford - Baker St
BAK: Baker St - E&C - H&W - Willesden Jct
OVG: Willesden Jct - Richmond
DIS: Richmond - Turnham Gn - Ealing Bdy - Acton Tn
PIC: Acton Tn - LHR123 via LHR4 - LHR5 - Cockfosters - Finsbury Pk
VIC: Finsbury Pk - Walthamstow - Brixton - Finsbury Pk
PIC: Finsbury Pk - Kings X
NOR: Kings X - MHE - Finchley C - High Barnet - Mornington Cr - Edgware - Morden via Charing X - Kings X via Bank
PIC: Kings X - Hammersmith (shunting to DIS not possible at Barons Ct)
DIS: Hammersmith - Earls Ct - Olympia - Upminster --
H&C: -- Liverpool St
MET: Liverpool St - Aldgate --
H&C: -- Hammersmith - Edgware Rd
DIS: Edgware Rd - Wimbledon - Earls Ct - Acton Tn
PIC: Acton Tn - Rayners La
MET: Rayners La - W Harrow - Uxbridge - Ickenham (transfer through Ruislip depot)
CEN: Ruislip Gdns - W Ruislip - N Acton - Ealing Bdy - Woodford via Hainault - Snaresbrook - Epping.

I assumed 5 minutes for each of the 50 turnarounds or shunts, which is probably quite generous. Turnarounds can be much quicker than that, particularly if there is a driver at both ends of the train. The shunts may require more time, though. Anyway:

I got the times between stations from a TfL document titled "inter station database". The version I have predates LHR5, so I simply assumed 4 minutes from LHR123 for that, and I also had to make an assumption for the time from Willesden Jct to Richmond (20 min, probably too much since no stopping would be required). I used two sets of times, the first being the "unimpeded" runtime, which DOES NOT assume stopping at stations, and the second being the off-peak runtime which DOES assume stopping at stations.

And here are the results, both assuming the aforementioned turnaround times:
- without stopping at stations, 14 h 47 min
- stopping at stations, 20 h 34 min
(probably somewhat quicker, though, since there would be no passengers getting on or off at stations)

So without stopping, the time would clearly beat the current record, but GWR rules assume stopping at stations. And, of course, this would not be a regular scheduled service, so the comparison is moot anyway.

Still, it would be possible to do this in one day, and it is far less than I guesstimated.

-JMan
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Iain
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Re: Could one train travel the entire tube network?

Post by Iain » 03 May 2019, 06:35

That's 347 extra minutes to stop at stations, or quite a bit over a minute per station. Bearing in mind some stops would have already been counted under the reversals heading, you're heading closer to two minutes extra for each stop. This seems high?
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greatkingrat
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Re: Could one train travel the entire tube network?

Post by greatkingrat » 03 May 2019, 11:25

You are going to be passing through most stations twice, so would only need to stop in one direction, which would reduce the time needed.
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Re: Could one train travel the entire tube network?

Post by nozzacook » 05 May 2019, 13:27

Only problem I see with the route is you would have to drag the train Willesden jct to Acton central as no 3rd/4th rail.
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Re: Could one train travel the entire tube network?

Post by TeamHelsinki » 05 May 2019, 18:42

D*mn. I was half expecting an objection along the lines of it not being in the spirit of the problem to go from Willesden Jct to Gunnersbury via Overground, as that would technically not fall within the description of "travel the entire tube network". I was completely unprepared for an actual technical hitch (no 3rd/4th rail from Willesden Jct to Acton C). Yet since this is in the realm of fantasy anyway, could we not assume a shunter available to push/pull the train over the unpowered gap?

I also failed to consider that, of course, one need only stop at each station once and can pass any station without stopping if it has already been visited.

OK, here's another question while I go back to the drawing board: can I assume that the train can just reverse anywhere and travel in either direction on any rails, which is what I've done now? Here's a practical example: approaching Moor Park southbound and going to Watford, can the train simply reverse at Moor Park and switch over at the Watford Triangle? Or would the train need to go as far as Northwood where the next switchover is available, in the interests of verisimilitude? Since there would be no other traffic on the tracks, one would assume that just reversing would be OK. And yet...

-JMan
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TeamHelsinki
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Re: Could one train travel the entire tube network?

Post by TeamHelsinki » 05 May 2019, 18:43

D*mn. I was half expecting an objection along the lines of it not being in the spirit of the problem to go from Willesden Jct to Gunnersbury via Overground, as that would technically not fall within the description of "travel the entire tube network". I was completely unprepared for an actual technical hitch (no 3rd/4th rail from Willesden Jct to Acton C). Yet since this is in the realm of fantasy anyway, could we not assume a shunter available to push/pull the train over the unpowered gap?

I also failed to consider that, of course, one need only stop at each station once and can pass any station without stopping if it has already been visited.

OK, here's another question while I go back to the drawing board: can I assume that the train can just reverse anywhere and travel in either direction on any rails, which is what I've done now? Here's a practical example: approaching Moor Park southbound and going to Watford, can the train simply reverse at Moor Park and switch over at the Watford Triangle? Or would the train need to go as far as Northwood where the next switchover is available, in the interests of verisimilitude? Since there would be no other traffic on the tracks, one would assume that just reversing would be OK. And yet...

-JMan
Helsinki Metro all stations 00:59:58
FNC 269/270 in 19:16:41
FNC completion Uxbridge to LHR4 in 30:32:57

TeamHelsinki
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Re: Could one train travel the entire tube network?

Post by TeamHelsinki » 05 May 2019, 18:44

(Sorry about repeating myself. My browser did something weird.)

-JMan
Helsinki Metro all stations 00:59:58
FNC 269/270 in 19:16:41
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TeamHelsinki
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Re: Could one train travel the entire tube network?

Post by TeamHelsinki » 08 May 2019, 23:54

Revised version. The route now has no Overground shortcut, hence longer -- but not that much longer. Times are calculated on the basis of not stopping at any station previously visited unless required for shunting.

Here is the route:
MET: Amersham - C&L - Chesham - Moor Pk - Watford - Wembley Pk -
JUB: - Stanmore - Stratford - Baker St -
BAK: - E&C - H&W - Baker St -
JUB: - Wembley Pk -
MET: - Baker St -
H&C: - Hammersmith - Edgware Rd -
DIS: - Earls Ct - Olympia - Earls Ct - Wimbledon - Edgware Rd -
CIR: - Tower Hill via Liverpool St -
DIS: - Upminster - Richmond - Turnham Gn - Ealing Bdy - Acton Tn -
PIC: - LHR 4 - LHR 123 - LHR 5 - Cockfosters - Finsbury Pk -
VIC: - Walthamstow - Brixton - Finsbury Pk -
PIC: - Kings X -
NOR: - MHE - Finchley C - High Barnet - Camden Tn - Edgware - Morden via CX - Kings X -
PIC: - Rayners La -
MET: - W Harrow - Uxbridge - Ickenham -
CEN: - Ruislip Gdns - W Ruislip - N Acton - Ealing Bdy - Woodford via Hainault to Snaresbrook - Epping

I am still allowing 5 minutes for each of the 47 turnarounds/switcheroos (fewer than in the previous version), esp. if points operated manually, etc. However, even so this requires all lines to be treated as reversible to avoid even lengthier detours for switchovers.

Grand total: 18 h 25 min. A long way from record-breaking, but comparable to an ordinary, unhurried FNC completion.

-JMan
Helsinki Metro all stations 00:59:58
FNC 269/270 in 19:16:41
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tangy
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Re: Could one train travel the entire tube network?

Post by tangy » 09 May 2019, 12:10

Why have a reverse at Moor Park when you could go direct from Ricky to Watford (Met) via the North Curve?
This is a Central line train to "Woodford via Hainault"- it always is, except when you actually want one!

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TeamHelsinki
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Re: Could one train travel the entire tube network?

Post by TeamHelsinki » 09 May 2019, 13:32

tangy wrote:
09 May 2019, 12:10
Why have a reverse at Moor Park when you could go direct from Ricky to Watford (Met) via the North Curve?
Very true. The station-to-station database obviously doesn't have a time for Rickmansworth to Croxley, and the NW corner was so uncomplicated compared to some of the other stuff that this just never occurred to me. That would certainly shave maybe 5 min off the final time.

Another anomaly I just noticed is that it wouldn't be necessary to go all the way to Wembley Park to get back to the Met from the Jubilee, as there is a crossover at Neasden as well. Say another 5 min for that -- so about 18 h 15 min total time, pending further amendments.

-JMan
Helsinki Metro all stations 00:59:58
FNC 269/270 in 19:16:41
FNC completion Uxbridge to LHR4 in 30:32:57

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