Challenger Newbie - Rules Clarification!

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ITFCShirts
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Challenger Newbie - Rules Clarification!

Post by ITFCShirts » 14 Mar 2017, 18:42

Evening all - First post, but been looking on the forum for a while trying to plan out a route for this summer.

But to make sure I'm following the rules correctly, I wanted to get clarity on a couple of points that weren't 100% clear. I was hoping some of those with completions under their belt could help me get it right.

National Rail - I've seen that the rules state that: "To 'visit' a station, the challenger must arrive and/or depart by an underground train in normal public service, but where a service is shared by underground and British Rail trains travelling over the same tracks it is permissible to use the British Rail trains. It is necessary for a through train to stop at the station for the visit to count, although the challenger does not need to get out."
- I can clearly look at the map to see where lines visit the same station, but the "travelling over the same tracks" bit, I wasn't sure how to confirm, and if there are any technicalities here!!!
- I'm clear Kensington Olympia Overground doesn't count, and C2C doesn't stop at all stations on the district line. But if Richmond/Gunnersbury is only completed on Overground, and also Extreme Met Line by Chiltern Railways for those stations it stops at, do they "count" as sharing the same tracks? Don't want to jump on a train in the heat of the moment only to realise later it didn't count!!!

Log Book - "The number of each train caught must be recorded in the logbook for cross referencing with London Underground records." - I've seen this on this site, but Geofftech doesn't mention this. Is this necessary, and if so, how do I go about finding it out! The carriage numbers aren't train related (I think!), and I thought train numbers are only displayed at the front of the train. Given I get on at Brixton, and never see the front of the train, I'm not sure how I can get this info!!!

Photos - I also thought I read somewhere about all photos being time-stamped. How do I go about making that happen? Again, is this required?

Witnesses/Stopwatches - Final one. "Independent" witness for the start. Short of the wife (independent?) sharing a hotel room with me at the extremities of one of the tube lines (and with some convincing required too!) and with my attempt going to be solo, maybe without a support team too, what do people advise for doing this properly?

Maybe all a little pedantic, but as the scouts say "be prepared!"

All help appreciated!

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Re: Challenger Newbie - Rules Clarification!

Post by Tube Geek » 14 Mar 2017, 19:29

ITFCShirts wrote: - I can clearly look at the map to see where lines visit the same station, but the "travelling over the same tracks" bit, I wasn't sure how to confirm, and if there are any technicalities here!!!
- I'm clear Kensington Olympia Overground doesn't count, and C2C doesn't stop at all stations on the district line. But if Richmond/Gunnersbury is only completed on Overground, and also Extreme Met Line by Chiltern Railways for those stations it stops at, do they "count" as sharing the same tracks? Don't want to jump on a train in the heat of the moment only to realise later it didn't count!!!
Newbie myself, but i think Gunnerbury - Richmond and Bakerloo -H&W are the only times this counts.
ITFCShirts wrote:Given I get on at Brixton, and never see the front of the train, I'm not sure how I can get this info!!!
Just get out at another station...
ITFCShirts wrote: Photos - I also thought I read somewhere about all photos being time-stamped. How do I go about making that happen?
Use a camera with one, or just make notes and put them together.
ITFCShirts wrote: What do people advise for doing this properly?
I'm sure someone on here will do it....
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Re: Challenger Newbie - Rules Clarification!

Post by tangy » 14 Mar 2017, 20:25

ITFCShirts wrote:National Rail - I've seen that the rules state that: "To 'visit' a station, the challenger must arrive and/or depart by an underground train in normal public service, but where a service is shared by underground and British Rail trains travelling over the same tracks it is permissible to use the British Rail trains. It is necessary for a through train to stop at the station for the visit to count, although the challenger does not need to get out."
- I can clearly look at the map to see where lines visit the same station, but the "travelling over the same tracks" bit, I wasn't sure how to confirm, and if there are any technicalities here!!!
- I'm clear Kensington Olympia Overground doesn't count, and C2C doesn't stop at all stations on the district line. But if Richmond/Gunnersbury is only completed on Overground, and also Extreme Met Line by Chiltern Railways for those stations it stops at, do they "count" as sharing the same tracks? Don't want to jump on a train in the heat of the moment only to realise later it didn't count!!!
Chiltern Trains can be used for tube challenge purposes north of Rickmansworth, where they call at the same stations and use the same tracks at Metropolitan line trains. The same applies to Overground trains between Queen's Park and Harrow & Wealdstone also Gunnersbury and Richmond.

You can use any other National Rail route as a means of public transport to transfer between lines- like the c2c route is a popular way of returning from Upminster.
Log Book - "The number of each train caught must be recorded in the logbook for cross referencing with London Underground records." - I've seen this on this site, but Geofftech doesn't mention this. Is this necessary, and if so, how do I go about finding it out! The carriage numbers aren't train related (I think!), and I thought train numbers are only displayed at the front of the train. Given I get on at Brixton, and never see the front of the train, I'm not sure how I can get this info!!!
You need the train running number- which is usually displayed above the destination screen on the front (and rear) of the train.

It is to be noted that on Victoria Line stock the train running number is also displayed on the exterior screens on the side of the front and rear coaches in a scrolling pattern with the destination and next station, an example:

211/Brixton/ Next stop:/Stockwell
Photos - I also thought I read somewhere about all photos being time-stamped. How do I go about making that happen? Again, is this required?
You need to set this on your camera before you start- if it has this function (some cheaper cameras do not have time/date stamping programmed onto them, as I have found out in the past).
This is a Central line train to "Woodford via Hainault"- it always is, except when you actually want one!

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Re: Challenger Newbie - Rules Clarification!

Post by DavidC » 14 Mar 2017, 21:05

On my occasional visits to Richmond, including for the south-of-the-river challenge, the Overground trains from Kew Gardens have pulled into different (but adjoining) platforms to those used by District line trains. Therefore I ensured that I started on a District line train from Kew Gardens that best synchronised with (in my case) a fast service to Putney (NR) from the main Up platform. From memory, Amersham is shared but some of those much closer to London may be separate.
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Re: Challenger Newbie - Rules Clarification!

Post by A Challenge » 02 Apr 2017, 06:05

Have a look at this map, though at Harrow-on-the-Hill there is no way to get of the down to Marylebone where the purple dashes end!

Also, Platforms 4-7 are Overground and District, so they are OK for same tracks, but if it goes into Platform 3 I am not so sure if it is valid.
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Re: Challenger Newbie - Rules Clarification!

Post by RJSRdg » 02 Apr 2017, 12:55

Log book - if you're starting the challenge at Brixton just give yourself enough time to stroll up and get the train number before you start (the clock doesn't start until the door closes). If you're changing at Brixton, you're best travelling at the back of the southbound train, and crossing to the front of the northbound train as the linking corridor at that end of the platforms is much shorter than the one at the other end. As you'll then be getting in the lead coach, you may have time to get the train number of the northbound train before you board, especially given Tangy's comment about Victoria Line train numbers. But it's not always easy to get the numbers, particularly if the train is already in the platform when you get there!

Witnesses - there's another thread on the forum which states Guinness have now tightened up the rules to needing TWO witnesses (and also tightening up who can be a witness - they seem to be suggesting a solicitor or similar), or an official Guinness judge (for which there is a charge). They're also now apparently requesting video footage be shot of the entire attempt (good luck getting a camera which can record 16 hours continuously!).
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Re: Challenger Newbie - Rules Clarification!

Post by RJSRdg » 02 Apr 2017, 13:44

Re video - perhaps not as bad as I thought, provided you have a 128GB memory card and sufficient batteries.
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Re: Challenger Newbie - Rules Clarification!

Post by lellama » 07 May 2017, 09:17

Is the train running number not printed in the WTT? Or is it the longer number (also printed along the side).

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Re: Challenger Newbie - Rules Clarification!

Post by dstock17 » 07 May 2017, 09:42

lellama wrote:Is the train running number not printed in the WTT? Or is it the longer number (also printed along the side).
the train number is usually 3 digits for example most met line are 400 something.

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Re: Challenger Newbie - Rules Clarification!

Post by Iain » 07 May 2017, 12:51

It is usually printed in the wtts, yes.

I know on previous challenge attempts that Guinness have not objected to the odd one missing, although they may have tightened up. You are likely to miss some though e.g. if you just make a quick double back at Brixton and need to do a quick change at Stockwell, so can't stay to get the number on the train you just got off.
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Re: Challenger Newbie - Rules Clarification!

Post by Steeevooo » 08 May 2017, 08:48

Also note that just because the WTT gives a train number, that is no guarantee that that train number will be a match for a train that you get at a given time...

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Re: Challenger Newbie - Rules Clarification!

Post by RJSRdg » 09 May 2017, 21:39

A clarification point of my own - should the times in the log book be to the nearest second, or just hours and minutes?
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Re: Challenger Newbie - Rules Clarification!

Post by Steeevooo » 10 May 2017, 08:39

The Log Book requires timings to the nearest second each time - so a digital watch is definitely preferable to an analog one!!

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Re: Challenger Newbie - Rules Clarification!

Post by RJSRdg » 10 May 2017, 22:48

Well, there goes *that* idea (taking three photographs at each station - one as the door opens, one of the sign and one as the door closes, and getting the opening and closing times from the date stamp - on my camera, that only works in minutes!).
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Re: Challenger Newbie - Rules Clarification!

Post by A Challenge » 08 Jun 2017, 07:10

My camera's a few minutes out in date modified when uploaded - but would that be allowed, it shows the time it was taken or I could rephotogtaph it with the details on the veow back menu that shows the time (and ecxposure etc.)?
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