Guinness world record regulations

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FelixJ20000
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Guinness world record regulations

Post by FelixJ20000 » 14 Mar 2017, 07:51

While creating the online application for my record attempt, I read the evidence guidelines and the fastest time to complete an underground network guidelines. The latter are below.
'fastest to visit all stations in an underground network' records
Please make sure you follow ALL these rules:

a) The name of the person(s) making the attempt must be given, along with the date and place.
b) It is not necessary to have an independent witness accompany the record attempt at all times. However, it is necessary to have two independent persons witness the beginning and the end of the record attempt, and confirm the exact time of each. Although it is preferable, it is not necessary for the same persons to serve as witness at both the start and the finish. However, a ‘master’ stopwatch must be started by a witness at the beginning of the event, and should be stopped by a witness at the end of the event. If the same persons cannot be witnesses at both start and finish, arrangements must be made for the stopwatch to be transferred between the start and finish witnesses. This ‘master’ stopwatch may not be carried by the participants on their journey. However, a separate stopwatch may be carried by the participants for their own reference if required.
c) The clock must start the moment the doors close on the first train taken by the challengers. It must stop the moment the challengers set foot on the platform at the last station.
d) The participant may take as many breaks as he/she wishes, but the clock must not stop at any time for any reason.
e) All of the stations served by the metro system must be visited. It is essential that evidence of a visit to each station is provided.
f) To `visit' a station, the challenger must arrive and/or depart by an underground train in normal public service. It is necessary for a train to stop at the station for the visit to count, although the challenger does not need to exit the train or the station. If a station is normally open only at certain times of the day, this must be taken into account during planning. Only if a station is temporarily closed (e.g. for rebuilding, or in an emergency) will a non-stop pass through a station be acceptable. Details and evidence of stations not visited must be included with the evidence provided.
g) Stations which are geographically separate and not linked but which have the same name must each be visited.
h) It is only necessary to visit all the stations on the network, not to travel every stretch of line. Thus, if a station is served by more than one line it is not necessary to visit that station on each line.
i) Challengers may travel the same stretch of track (and visit the same station) more than once if necessary.
j) Attempts on this record must be continuous (i.e. any breaks or stops that are taken must be included in the final time).
k) Transfers between metro lines must be made by scheduled public transport or on foot. The use of private motor vehicles, taxis or any other form of privately arranged transport (bicycles, skateboards etc.) is not allowed.
l) In the event that a terminal station is closed for long-term repairs, then the station must still be visited, but the station may be both arrived at and departed from on foot or by scheduled surface public transport. Proof of station closure must be submitted.
m) A photograph must be taken of the arrival at each station. The photograph must include the time the photograph was taken, either as a digital timestamp or in the form of a clock visible in the frame of the image.
n) Log Book - A logbook detailing every stage of the journey, i.e. the time of arrival and departure from each station, the train number, line changes, commutes between lines and stations, etc. must be maintained. This book should illustrate clearly the route followed. All rest breaks or stoppages for whatever reason must also be fully detailed in the log.
o) Witness statements - we require signed witness statements of authentication by the independent persons who attended the beginning and end of the attempt (refer to point ). These statements should originate directly from the witnesses, in their own hand, and be submitted where possible on their own headed notepaper and include full contact details. Witness statements must not take the form of documents pre-prepared by those involved in the record attempt.
p) Witness Book - In addition to the two independent witness statements, a book must be made available for additional independent witnesses to sign. The book should be set up so that the following details can be included for each potential witness: a) Date and Time, b) Location, c) Name and d) Signature. We appreciate that it might not be possible to gain an unbroken line of witnesses for the attempt, but one should try to obtain as many as possible.
q) Any relevant receipts should be submitted with your evidence pack.
r) The entire attempt must be filmed in case further evidence is required. It is not necessary to submit the full footage - a ‘highlights package’ will be acceptable but must include the following points: a) Footage of the start of the attempt, showing the doors closing, and with a timepiece clearly visible; b) any transfers between lines made on foot or by scheduled public transport; c) The end of the attempt, showing the challenger’s arrival on to the final platform, and with a timepiece clearly visible. Please make sure you supply the following evidence:
• One cover letter explaining the context of the record attempt. Please indicate the date, time and exact location of the record attempt, your chosen witnesses and your record attempt measurement. Also please provide full details of the person(s)/organisation attempting the record including details on the preparation for the attempt.
• Two witness statements confirming the exact details of the start and end of the attempt, as well as explicitly confirming all of the rules have been adhered to.
• Photographic evidence is compulsory evidence for all record attempts. See rule (m) for details of photographic requirements for this attempt.
• Video evidence is compulsory evidence for this record attempt – see Rule (r).
• Log book as described above
• Witness book as described above
• Schedule 2 should be signed by you when you are sending in evidence which you either own or have permission to allow Guinness World Records to use.
• If you include any photographs or video in your evidence which you do not own or have permission to allow Guinness World Records to use, then you must include Schedule 3.
• Media articles (newspaper, online, TV or radio) can be submitted as part of the evidence requirements. This is not compulsory evidence.


The general evidence guidelines specify that ALL attempts (without exception) must be filmed in their entirety. They also need 2 timekeepers and 2 independent witnesses "of some standing" to spectate the entire event (except for epic journeys/voyages which this likely falls under where they need only spectate the start and end). The timekeeper must also have "some timekeeping experience".

I also question that with the S Stock, the "The clock must start the moment the doors close on the first train taken by the challengers" becomes rather difficult to uphold because the doors close separately. If someone gets stuck in a door and it has to reopen, how would that count? What if all the doors were closed already? Would you count it as when the button lights go out? Or would you have to keep the door open manually until it shuts? On the S Stock, if you press the door open button about 1s before the doors are closed it opens and then closed, would that time be the one taken?

Of course, once the attempt is approved by Guinness I'll have a designated record manager and so I'll be able to pose these questions to him, but since it is unlikely to be approved for at least a month, what are your takes on this​?

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Re: Guinness world record regulations

Post by Tube Geek » 14 Mar 2017, 08:37

All I'm saying is - 275th topic :wink:
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Re: Guinness world record regulations

Post by RJSRdg » 14 Mar 2017, 08:47

So now, as well as carrying a camera, a log book and provisions, we also now need to carry a video camera and enough batteries/memory cards to last 15 1/2 hours!

And getting one independent witness to meet you at Chesham at 5:15am is bad enough - two is nearly impossible!
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Re: Guinness world record regulations

Post by Steeevooo » 14 Mar 2017, 10:02

They're the same rules that everyone else has to abide by...

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Re: Guinness world record regulations

Post by tubeguru » 14 Mar 2017, 12:03

I'm glad we did it when Guinness hadn't got all power-trippy with it, to be honest.
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FelixJ20000
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Re: Guinness world record regulations

Post by FelixJ20000 » 14 Mar 2017, 16:26

Steeevooo wrote:They're the same rules that everyone else has to abide by...
But the sheer amount of evidence required now is incredulous!

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Re: Guinness world record regulations

Post by FelixJ20000 » 14 Mar 2017, 21:18

Btw, this is who can be the two witnesses (at the start and end, not random people for the log book)
Who can act as a valid witness?
• Attendance from a Guinness World Records Judge - Having an Official Guinness World Records Judge present during your record title attempt means that we can provide on-the-spot verification and immediately announce whether or not your attempt has been a success (Standard Application waiting times are between 6-12 weeks). It also means that a lot of the evidence requirements detailed in this pack will not be necessary however you will need to confirm specific evidence requirements with your allocated GWR Judge. Please note, this is a paid-for service. If you are interested in learning more about this service, please contact an account manager at: http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/set ... contact-us
• Independent professionals from the community – Local attorneys, government officials, accountants, and police officers are some examples of valid witnesses, provided they are suitably independent, and are present at the event with the sole purpose of acting as a witness. For example, a security officer whose duty is to maintain order at a mass participation event would not be a valid witness, since he/she is performing a different duty and so will not always be able to act in the capacity of a witness.
• Audit company or professional services firm – This is a company contracted by the record organisers to independently verify the outcome of the record and the following of the guidelines. Please note that this is a requirement for all mass participation records of greater than 5,000 participants.

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Re: Guinness world record regulations

Post by RJSRdg » 14 Mar 2017, 22:49

Steeevooo wrote:They're the same rules that everyone else has to abide by...
Whilst most of the rules are the same, I think the requirement to film the whole challenge and the requirement to have not one but two independent witnesses are new.

When you set the 15:45 GWR, I presume you had not filmed the entire challenge, otherwise it would have been easy for you to prove to Guinness that you had not skipped the stations you did not have photos for.
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Re: Guinness world record regulations

Post by Steeevooo » 15 Mar 2017, 09:31

RJSRdg wrote:
Steeevooo wrote:They're the same rules that everyone else has to abide by...
Whilst most of the rules are the same, I think the requirement to film the whole challenge and the requirement to have not one but two independent witnesses are new.

When you set the 15:45 GWR, I presume you had not filmed the entire challenge, otherwise it would have been easy for you to prove to Guinness that you had not skipped the stations you did not have photos for.
Correct - however the amendment takes the phrasing from "extensive video footage" to "video footage of the entire attempt" (or words to those effects), which is, I agree, slightly ridiculous. However, if GWR are to be so pernickety about everything then filming the whole attempt is the logical conclusion to be able to prove exactly what you did actually do on the day, and therefore saves the hassle of arguments over the exactitudes of the attempt. I've personally seen this being a requirement coming for a good few years as GWR try to "tighten up" their verification process so to speak.

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Re: Guinness world record regulations

Post by Iain » 15 Mar 2017, 10:02

I suppose with video equipment becoming more readily available then it was an obvious move. I wonder how possible it would be to take pics of roundels from video and put together the log book after the event based on the video footage?
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Re: Guinness world record regulations

Post by tubeguru » 15 Mar 2017, 11:52

I've got this image in my head of a judge and solicitor getting out of bed at 04.00 to get to Chesham to sign a piece of paper for someone ...
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Re: Guinness world record regulations

Post by Iain » 15 Mar 2017, 13:47

I've just noticed the bit about witness statements ideally being on their own headed notepaper. How many people have that?
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Re: Guinness world record regulations

Post by crypto » 15 Mar 2017, 14:09

I'd guess that you could request some if it's that important

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Re: Guinness world record regulations

Post by FelixJ20000 » 15 Mar 2017, 16:14

Iain wrote:I've just noticed the bit about witness statements ideally being on their own headed notepaper. How many people have that?
meh, "ideally", Guinness will probably relent if you have really good video tbh.... which brings me to the matter of the S stock doors I mentioned earlier

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Re: Guinness world record regulations

Post by Steeevooo » 15 Mar 2017, 16:24

Given that you're going to obliterate the record anyway, I don't see how the issue of a couple of seconds at the start is really going to worry you?

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