Same Rails rule...

[tractakid]

This law is doing my head in. What EXACTLY is the requirement for 'Same Rails' to be valid?

[Iain]

I looked at the wording of the rule on Geoff's website - it talks about trains that share a service which to me means start and destination must be the same which would rule my Royal start illegal.

[tractakid]

So, the same rails rule is defined as 'travel on the same rails as a qualifying service for some of the distance in between 2 stations that both trains call at'?

[tubeguru]

That sounds a little complex for such a simple concept.

With regard to the FNC: "You can use a National Rail train provided its route takes it along the same rails as Underground trains for all or any part of its journey".

[geofftech]

My issue was 'Can you take an Overground train in AND out of Richmond, and count it as being done'? I used to think "no", but when i realised that District trains sometimes also used platform 3 & 4, then all platforms 3-7 can be used by District and Overground services, then it's ok.

Here's a good one : Can you ARRIVE at Amersham on a Chiltern on Platform 1, (say at the end of a challenge) and count it as "done". Do Met trains/are/ever/capable of arriving at Platform 1 (and not Platform 2 like they normally do), for it to be counted as a valid station visit?

[joy54]

I thought tractakid might have been getting at using London Overground to take out Kensington Olympia on the basis both District and LO both serve WB and KO and also run over part of the same rails at the cross over junction.

[greatkingrat]

It is physically possible for Mets to reverse in Amersham P1. While it is not normal, I am sure it must happen occassionally if there is disruption.

As for Olympia - there is no connection at all between the District Line and the Overground.

[tubeguru]

Here's a good one : Can you ARRIVE at Amersham on a Chiltern on Platform 1, (say at the end of a challenge) and count it as "done". Do Met trains/are/ever/capable of arriving at Platform 1 (and not Platform 2 like they normally do), for it to be counted as a valid station visit?

A quick look at the Route Availability tables in the London North Western (South) Sectional Appendix reveals that Class 165/1 trains are prohibited from the "LUL section" at Amersham, but that 165/0s CAN use the section, but only if fitted with tripcocks. Class 166 trains are prohibited, but can be specially authorised.

So, the long and short of it is that Chiltern trains CAN go into platform 1, but only if they are a Class 165/0 fitted with a tripcock.

Clear as mud, hopefully.

[Iain]

We went into platform one on an underground train on our last FNC, followed by another into p2 a few minutes later, so it does happen.

"To `visit' a station, the challenger must arrive and/or depart by an underground train in normal public service, but where a service is shared by underground and British Rail trains travelling over the same tracks it is permissible to use the National Rail trains." is the relevant rule from Geoff's website. I assumed this was the official wording but I guess Geoff may have paraphrased.

[Nigel]

"To `visit' a station, the challenger must arrive and/or depart by an underground train in normal public service, but where a service is shared by underground and British Rail trains travelling over the same tracks it is permissible to use the National Rail trains." is the relevant rule from Geoff's website. I assumed this was the official wording but I guess Geoff may have paraphrased.

The relevant rule in the pack I was sent by GWR when I made my first attempt two years ago was:
"1. All of the stations served by London Underground trains must be visited. To`visit' a station, the challenger must arrive and/or depart by an underground train in normal public service, but where a service is shared by underground and British Rail trains travelling over the same tracks it is permissible to use the British Rail trains. It is necessary for a through train to stop at the station for the visit to count, although the challenger does not need to get out. Certain stations are normally only open at certain times of the day, and this must be taken into account in planning. Attempts can only be made during the week as certain stations are shut at weekends. Only if a station is temporarily closed (e.g. for rebuilding, or in an emergency), or if it closes earlier or opens later than normal as a result of rebuilding work, will a non-stop pass through a station be acceptable."

That said, a number of their 'rules' either had illogicalities or were out of date. In this case, there are no longer any British Rail trains. (Also as demonstrated last summer, there are some weekends when every station is open.)

[Going Underground]

As long a GWR tick all the boxes and give you a certificate that is all you need to worry about... Does anyone really think they know or can be arsed to check what platforms trains actually arrive at......

[tractakid]

I thought tractakid might have been getting at using London Overground to take out Kensington Olympia on the basis both District and LO both serve WB and KO and also run over part of the same rails at the cross over junction.

Not at all.

scrxisi, how do you define 'bar the terminating platforms'? What proportion of the journey is acceptable to differentiate from the rails to arrive at a different platform?

[moley]

My issue was 'Can you take an Overground train in AND out of Richmond, and count it as being done'? I used to think "no", but when i realised that District trains sometimes also used platform 3 & 4, then all platforms 3-7 can be used by District and Overground services, then it's ok.

Here's a good one : Can you ARRIVE at Amersham on a Chiltern on Platform 1, (say at the end of a challenge) and count it as "done". Do Met trains/are/ever/capable of arriving at Platform 1 (and not Platform 2 like they normally do), for it to be counted as a valid station visit?

Met trains do use both - Geoff, remember you filmed an arrival at Amersham platform 1 for the last A stock tour. Actually, you didn't - someone else was in the cab at that point. But we did still go into platform 1!

[tangy]

All of Chiltern's multiple unit stock is fitted with tripcocks for LUL running. So this is the 165/0s, and all sub types of thier 168 class. The class 67/loco hauled stock are not fitted.

I have been on a Met that has departed back into town from platform 1, so all three platforms at AMR can accept both Tube and Chiltern stock.

[Iain]

Someone has to ask - what's a tripcock?